GPRS and Edge optimization

[beniy]

Hi Dears,
For improving share knowledge and share experience and documents as well,
I created this post to discuss about your problems and find an answer and solution for them.

Please ask your question about gprs and Edge here!!!

Thanks.

[RF engineer]

Hi
I would like to ask how many TBF per Timeslot can be taken?
BR
RF

[beniy]

Hi,
It is different for uplink and downlink.
One timeslot(PDCH channel) can use for both uplink and downlink.
And you can set by parameter number of uplink tbf and downlink tbf for one PDCH channel.(we say multiplex threshold)
For uplink from 1 to 7 (default is 7)
For downlink from 1 to 16 (default is 8)
Any question you can ask!!!
(please thanks and Rep if it was useful):p

[Processor]

I'm having problems with EDGE on my network here, after several drive tests i cant seem to be able to get MCS9...I keep getting MCS6 while doing a drive test but when i check NPO counters i see traces of MCS9 usage.

Is there someway that ABIS or ATER could be limiting MCS9 usage?

I need help from the Pros in the house as i'm on contract here and remaining a few weeks.

[RF engineer]

I'm having problems with EDGE on my network here, after several drive tests i cant seem to be able to get MCS9...I keep getting MCS6 while doing a drive test but when i check NPO counters i see traces of MCS9 usage.

Is there someway that ABIS or ATER could be limiting MCS9 usage?

I need help from the Pros in the house as i'm on contract here and remaining a few weeks.
In order to get MCS9 you should have high C/I > 25 dB and so if you want to have this in drive keep close to site around 20m you can get this .
BR
RF

[RF engineer]

Hi,
It is different for uplink and downlink.
One timeslot(PDCH channel) can use for both uplink and downlink.
And you can set by parameter number of uplink tbf and downlink tbf for one PDCH channel.(we say multiplex threshold)
For uplink from 1 to 7 (default is 7)
For downlink from 1 to 16 (default is 8)
Any question you can ask!!!
(please thanks and Rep if it was useful):p
Thanks alot , i know about this , what i mean is that how they calculate this.
BR
RF

[beniy]

Thanks alot , i know about this , what i mean is that how they calculate this.
BR
RF
Dear



Sorry edited(see below reply from me )

you should have at least 4 idle time slot(Edap) on ABIS link.
If ABIS resource was not enough you can not download with MCS9.
And you should be sure about your handset!!!

Any question you can ask!!

[beniy]

Thanks alot , i know about this , what i mean is that how they calculate this.
BR
RF
Continue from above!!!
8998
1: Improve C/I, reduce frequency interfere
2: Configure more idel time slots for BTS under enough resource, so as to get higher coding.
3: Enough static PDCH channel
4: reasonable CRO and CRH, reduce cell reselect (on period of cell reselect, TBF will broken, will land to new cell, will rebuild new TBF)

[radenmohawk]

How to calculate PCU Load or predict the PCU will be overload??

[beniy]

Thanks alot , i know about this , what i mean is that how they calculate this.
BR
RF

That's cell level parameter,
If your cell is congested you can decreased bandwidth(Increase number of TBF on PDCH) upon, you have not congestion.
It's better that you change it step by step and see congestion.
for example if you have 5% congestion on downlink you can change downlink value from 8 to 12.
your congestion absoloutly should decrease.
Ffter this change ,If congestion became 3% and you want to more decrease (for example 1% congestion) you should change from 12 to 16.
(you should calculate it seprate for uplink and downlink)
Might in one site you have uplink congestion in the other downlink congestion.
Let me know if you got your answer.:o

[kamnikot]

hello

please i am new to gprs and edge...please can you help me with basic materials to understand gprs and edge in e******* equipment

[beniy]

How to calculate PCU Load or predict the PCU will be overload??

Dear,
every PCU or BSC(Embedded PCU) have some boards which process packet services!
For Example in Huawei's BSC we have GDPUP board every GDPUP board can handle 1024 PDCH which use MCS9 simultaneously.
one normal BSC(not big not small) Have 3 GDPUPs.
Every board have some DSPs (Processor)!!
you can monitor or get query from them to find they Overload or not
(For example DSP usage less than 70% is normal)


Do not forgot to add Rep and push thanks(It is needed to continue fairly):)

[beniy]

hello

please i am new to gprs and edge...please can you help me with basic materials to understand gprs and edge in e******* equipment
Dear,
Exactly I have some NOKIA and Huawei experiences.
I have not any document for E*******!!
But I have some general document If you need I can upload!
I will search for e******* and if I found I will share soon!!
Check again and wait!!:)

[parsarka]

I saw your post in the other thread where u mentioned u check this thread...I have Huawei system in my network so please suggest some parameters to improve the DL EDGE throughput while in mobility/during Drive Test & also how to reduce hard/soft blocking.(Reputation & thanks added :) )

[beniy]

I saw your post in the other thread where u mentioned u check this thread...I have Huawei system in my network so please suggest some parameters to improve the DL EDGE throughput while in mobility/during Drive Test & also how to reduce hard/soft blocking.(Reputation & thanks added :) )

Dear,
we have not exact parameter to increase throughput.
It is directly refer to the No. of idle timeslot and PDCH channel.
but we have one parameter for dynamic PDCH.
max ratio threshold for PDCH channel(%)
for DT see upper post from me and C/I and...
and about your another question
what do you mean from "hard/soft blocking"?

[wimaxopt]

Dear,
every PCU or BSC(Embedded PCU) have some boards which process packet services!
For Example in Huawei's BSC we have GDPUP board every GDPUP board can handle 1024 PDCH which use MCS9 simultaneously.
one normal BSC(not big not small) Have 3 GDPUPs.
Every board have some DSPs (Processor)!!
you can monitor or get query from them to find they Overload or not
(For example DSP usage less than 70% is normal)


Do not forgot to add Rep and push thanks(It is needed to continue fairly):)
Thank you so much...
very good stuf.
please continue and support.
so many thanks and rep..........

[kotaro]

Dear Senior,

Do you know how to measure traffic in GPRS and EDGE system?
Thanks

[nandi_saikat1]

Data Erlang is being calculated by [{Total duration of UL GPRS TBF (msec)+ Total duration of UL EDGE TBF (msec)+ Total duration of DL GPRS TBF (msec)+ Total duration of DL EDGE TBF (msec)}/1000]/3600 at RLC layer.

Average PDCH Utilization (%)] = [Number of RLC Data Blocks Used on PDCH] x {100}/[Total Number of RLC Data Blocks on PDCH]

pls let me know for further doubts.

[kotaro]

Thanks for information,
what about if we want to count the Data in bytes?

[forumuser-2008]

Data Erlang is being calculated by [{Total duration of UL GPRS TBF (msec)+ Total duration of UL EDGE TBF (msec)+ Total duration of DL GPRS TBF (msec)+ Total duration of DL EDGE TBF (msec)}/1000]/3600 at RLC layer.

Average PDCH Utilization (%)] = [Number of RLC Data Blocks Used on PDCH] x {100}/[Total Number of RLC Data Blocks on PDCH]

pls let me know for further doubts.



OK, I have created a report for Data Erlang as you said. Now it shows me (0.1-2) for one hour. What does it mean? Is it busy time of data transfer or what? Please give more explanation for Data Traffic (erlang), if you wish :).

Also if you know any very useful book for GPRS-EGPRS which explains step by step. Give me its name, I would like to buy it.

Thanks in advance

[beniy]

Data Erlang is being calculated by [{Total duration of UL GPRS TBF (msec)+ Total duration of UL EDGE TBF (msec)+ Total duration of DL GPRS TBF (msec)+ Total duration of DL EDGE TBF (msec)}/1000]/3600 at RLC layer.

Average PDCH Utilization (%)] = [Number of RLC Data Blocks Used on PDCH] x {100}/[Total Number of RLC Data Blocks on PDCH]

pls let me know for further doubts.
Yes this is true.
But we did not consider about erlang for GPRS.
We say, Payload(KB).
the most consideration is RLC payload and unit is Kbyte.
for example for GPRS total payload is : Uplink GPRS + Downlink GPRS
and Uplink formula is:


Total bytes of uplink GPRS RLC data blocks = Total Number of Uplink
RLC Data Blocks Using CS1 x 23 + Total Number of Uplink RLC
Data Blocks Using CS2 x 34 + Total Number of Uplink RLC Data
Blocks Using CS3 x 40 + Total Number of Uplink RLC Data Blocks
Using CS4 x 54

Thanks and Rep is fair to continue sharing.:)

[beniy]

OK, I have created a report for Data Erlang as you said. Now it shows me (0.1-2) for one hour. What does it mean? Is it busy time of data transfer or what? Please give more explanation for Data Traffic (erlang), if you wish :).

Also if you know any very useful book for GPRS-EGPRS which explains step by step. Give me its name, I would like to buy it.

Thanks in advance
Dear Check my post and use that formula!!!
have fun!

[kevin_h811]

Hi Beniy,

For GPRS and EDGE, what is the minimum and maximum and average ,download and upload throughput also (for phone as modem and for plug and play modem).

When do you use ping for GPRS and EDGE problem complains and what is the acceptable Percent Loss and Average Delay for this.

Thanks and Regards//

[beniy]

Hi Beniy,

For GPRS and EDGE, what is the minimum and maximum and average ,download and upload throughput also (for phone as modem and for plug and play modem).

When do you use ping for GPRS and EDGE problem complains and what is the acceptable Percent Loss and Average Delay for this.

Thanks and Regards//

Dear,
As you know througput is Kb/s.
And minimum can be 0.
in GPRS if every timeslot can handle maximum21 kb/s (with CS4)
if network assign 4 timeslo(Max) throughput for user is 84kb/s.

I did not your mean about: "When do you use ping for GPRS and EDGE problem complains "
please more explain about question.
about last question.
ping delay 180 ms is good.

please Add thanks and Rep to continue fairly.:)

[forumuser-2008]

Yes this is true.
But we did not consider about erlang for GPRS.
We say, Payload(KB).
the most consideration is RLC payload and unit is Kbyte.
for example for GPRS total payload is : Uplink GPRS + Downlink GPRS
and Uplink formula is:


Total bytes of uplink GPRS RLC data blocks = Total Number of Uplink
RLC Data Blocks Using CS1 x 23 + Total Number of Uplink RLC
Data Blocks Using CS2 x 34 + Total Number of Uplink RLC Data
Blocks Using CS3 x 40 + Total Number of Uplink RLC Data Blocks
Using CS4 x 54

Thanks and Rep is fair to continue sharing.:)




So you mean, we don't need to use "Erlang" word for GPRS/EGPRS?

[beniy]

So you mean, we don't need to use "Erlang" word for GPRS/EGPRS?
Yes!
Kbyte is more meaningful!
but if any operator want you can tell them!.:)

[parsarka]

Yes this is true.
But we did not consider about erlang for GPRS.
We say, Payload(KB).
the most consideration is RLC payload and unit is Kbyte.
for example for GPRS total payload is : Uplink GPRS + Downlink GPRS
and Uplink formula is:


Total bytes of uplink GPRS RLC data blocks = Total Number of Uplink
RLC Data Blocks Using CS1 x 23 + Total Number of Uplink RLC
Data Blocks Using CS2 x 34 + Total Number of Uplink RLC Data
Blocks Using CS3 x 40 + Total Number of Uplink RLC Data Blocks
Using CS4 x 54

Thanks and Rep is fair to continue sharing.:)


Hi ,
Please send me some notes on EDGE-GPRS Optimisation on Huawei systems

[beniy]

This is a good doc from Nokia about GPRS and Edge9424

[beniy]

This is a good doc from Nokia about GPRS and Edge9424

And Rep to continue docs and knowledge sharing!:)
9425
9426

[forumuser-2008]

And Rep to continue docs and knowledge sharing!:)
9425
9426

Hi Beniy

Do you have any documentations for GPRS/EDGE of Huawei System?

[forumuser-2008]

Yes this is true.
But we did not consider about erlang for GPRS.
We say, Payload(KB).
the most consideration is RLC payload and unit is Kbyte.
for example for GPRS total payload is : Uplink GPRS + Downlink GPRS
and Uplink formula is:


Total bytes of uplink GPRS RLC data blocks = Total Number of Uplink
RLC Data Blocks Using CS1 x 23 + Total Number of Uplink RLC
Data Blocks Using CS2 x 34 + Total Number of Uplink RLC Data
Blocks Using CS3 x 40 + Total Number of Uplink RLC Data Blocks
Using CS4 x 54

Thanks and Rep is fair to continue sharing.:)




Hi Beniy

One more question I have to you. I have created the report as you said (payload), as a result for one hour I see (1500-3000). But I don't know it is in byte or in Kbyte? I converted it to Kbyte (divided to 1024, but then the result is not realistic (1-2))

[beniy]

Hi Beniy

One more question I have to you. I have created the report as you said (payload), as a result for one hour I see (1500-3000). But I don't know it is in byte or in Kbyte? I converted it to Kbyte (divided to 1024, but then the result is not realistic (1-2))
yes this is byte.
yes that's low for you!
might your cell is low traffic!
or your calculation is wrong

[parsarka]

Hi Beniy

One more question I have to you. I have created the report as you said (payload), as a result for one hour I see (1500-3000). But I don't know it is in byte or in Kbyte? I converted it to Kbyte (divided to 1024, but then the result is not realistic (1-2))

Hi Forum user,
I have added reputations & thnaks to you.I am working on Huawei system.Please tell me the parameters by which we can improve the DL throughput during mobility(while moving in cars) as i am facing problem in this.

[Mr.David]

Hi Beny,

I just start learning nokia n also gprs
we have done EDGE activation in some cell and i have found CSSR & DCR degradation after EDGE activation.
Could you help me give some suggestion to investigate this issue....

[beniy]

Hi Beny,

I just start learning nokia n also gprs
we have done EDGE activation in some cell and i have found CSSR & DCR degradation after EDGE activation.
Could you help me give some suggestion to investigate this issue....
Dear,
this is not related to Edge activation!!!!
you should get sub query to find root reason for cssr and dcr.
CS service and PS service are diffrent!
add thanks and rep to continue fairly!

[ghamiz]

Hi every one,
I am new to this forum as am new in the field of data services performance. can any one please share the formula for TBF Establishment Success Rate DL/UL for nokia. The one provided in nokia documentation is quite confusing. Also please share if you use the KPI: "UL/DL Radio Blocking for GPRS/EDGE":confused:

[beniy]

Dear All,
Kindly share your experienced knowledge and findings regarding TBF Establishment success rate for Nokia.

Currently i am using the formula:
(Packet_Imm_Ass_Msgs) / (Packet_Imm_Ass_Msgs + Packet_Imm_Ass_Rej_Msgs + Packet_Imm_Ass_NACK_Msgs)

but after reading the nokia documentation i think it should be:
(NBR OF UL/DL TBFs) / UL/DL TBF ESTABLISHMENT STARTED


kindly all please share your feed back, as i am new to this :L
Hi welcome!!
yes the second one is tru and is for TBFSSR!
but the first one is part of PDCH channel assignment formula!
Please add rep and thanks to continue fairly!!!

[beniy]

Hi welcome!!
yes the second one is tru and is for TBFSSR!
but the first one is part of PDCH channel assignment formula!
Please add rep and thanks to continue fairly!!!


TBF establishment failure ratio, S12 (tbf_66)

Use:

This KPI calculates ratio of failed UL and DL TBFs due to no response
from MS to all TBFs (UL and DL).

Formula (NetAct names):

sum (DL_TBF_Establishment_Failed + DL_EGPRS_TBF_REL_DUE_NO_RESP)
+ sum (UL_TBF_Establishment_Failed + UL_EGPRS_TBF_REL_DUE_NO_RESP)
100 * -----------------------------------------------------------
sum (Nbr_Of_DL_TBF + Nbr_Of_UL_TBF)

Unit:

%
TBF Establishment SSR = 100 - TBF establishment failure ratio
Please add rep and thanks to continue fairly

[ghamiz]

Hi Dears,
For improving share knowledge and share experience and documents as well,
I am create this post to discuss about your problems and find an answer and solution for them.

Please ask your question about gprs and Edge here!!!

Thanks.
Dear beniy,
First of all thanks so much for your response, but if you please shed some more light on the two formulas i'll greatly appreciate. Also tell me what is TBFSSR (is it TBF success rate)..

Also the formula that you have mentioned is also Nokia's vendor default formula but why are not they excluding NO RADIO RES AVAIL FOR UL/DL TBF that isthe number of failed UL TBF establishments because of lack of radio resources. My purpose is to determine:
TBF_EST_SUCC RATE as equal to = 100*(Successfully established TBFs)/ (Total TBF Attempts)

[beniy]

Dear beniy,
First of all thanks so much for your response, but if you please shed some more light on the two formulas i'll greatly appreciate. Also tell me what is TBFSSR (is it TBF success rate)..

Also the formula that you have mentioned is also Nokia's vendor default formula but why are not they excluding NO RADIO RES AVAIL FOR UL/DL TBF that isthe number of failed UL TBF establishments because of lack of radio resources. My purpose is to determine:
TBF_EST_SUCC RATE as equal to = 100*(Successfully established TBFs)/ (Total TBF Attempts)

You shoud add my reputation to continue!!!!
http://www.finetopix.com/reputation.php?p=89701

[beniy]

Dear beniy,
First of all thanks so much for your response, but if you please shed some more light on the two formulas i'll greatly appreciate. Also tell me what is TBFSSR (is it TBF success rate)..

Also the formula that you have mentioned is also Nokia's vendor default formula but why are not they excluding NO RADIO RES AVAIL FOR UL/DL TBF that isthe number of failed UL TBF establishments because of lack of radio resources. My purpose is to determine:
TBF_EST_SUCC RATE as equal to = 100*(Successfully established TBFs)/ (Total TBF Attempts)
yes TBFSSR (is it TBF success rate)..
TBF_EST_SUCC RATE as equal to = 100*(Successfully established TBFs)/ (Total TBF Attempts)
yes above formula is exactly true!
because some TBF establishment fail due to no channel and other cause!

[ghamiz]

Dear Beniy, please reply to my query, thanks.

[beniy]

Dear Beniy, please reply to my query, thanks.
Dear,
I told you,
The formula which you mentioned:
(Successful PDCH Assigments)/(Attempted PDCH Assignment Assignments)
This is for PDCH assignment success rate(PDCH is channel)
for TBF is diffrent(TBF means call for GPRS):

100-(

sum (DL_TBF_Establishment_Failed + DL_EGPRS_TBF_REL_DUE_NO_RESP)
+ sum (UL_TBF_Establishment_Failed + UL_EGPRS_TBF_REL_DUE_NO_RESP)
100 * -----------------------------------------------------------
sum (Nbr_Of_DL_TBF + Nbr_Of_UL_TBF)
)

[beniy]

yes TBFSSR (is it TBF success rate)..
TBF_EST_SUCC RATE as equal to = 100*(Successfully established TBFs)/ (Total TBF Attempts)
yes above formula is exactly true!
because some TBF establishment fail due to no channel and other cause!
and
(Packet_Imm_Ass_Msgs) / (Packet_Imm_Ass_Msgs + Packet_Imm_Ass_Rej_Msgs + Packet_Imm_Ass_NACK_Msgs)
That's for channel assignment

[ghamiz]

Dear Beniy,
Hope i will not be bothering you, just a last query: does the counter NBR_OF_UL_TBF represent TBF establishment attempts or successfully established TBFs?

As per Nokia 's documentation it is the count of successfully established TBFs but if it is in the denominator it implies it is the number of attempts to establish the TBF, and that is the whole confusion :confused:

[beniy]

Dear Beniy,
Hope i will not be bothering you, just a last query: does the counter NBR_OF_UL_TBF represent TBF establishment attempts or successfully established TBFs?

As per Nokia 's documentation it is the count of successfully established TBFs but if it is in the denominator it implies it is the number of attempts to establish the TBF, and that is the whole confusion :confused:
NBR_OF_UL_TBF is TBF establishment attempts.
For success you shoud mines failure fro NBR_OF_UL_TBF !
Thanks and Rep if it was useful!

[adriansyah]

I saw your post in the other thread where u mentioned u check this thread...I have Huawei system in my network so please suggest some parameters to improve the DL EDGE throughput while in mobility/during Drive Test & also how to reduce hard/soft blocking.(Reputation & thanks added :) )



Try BsCVMAx and T3168

[Mr.David]

Dear,
this is not related to Edge activation!!!!
you should get sub query to find root reason for cssr and dcr.
CS service and PS service are diffrent!
add thanks and rep to continue fairly!

but anyway...
is it related to increasing tch blocking & sd blocking after edge activation.... meaning edge traffic increase also...... correct me if i'm wrong...

[beniy]

but anyway...
is it related to increasing tch blocking & sd blocking after edge activation.... meaning edge traffic increase also...... correct me if i'm wrong...
Dear David,
If you have TCH or SDCCH blocking you should check PDCH channel,
Both static PDCH and Dynamic.
Static PDCH is the channel which you assigned manualy to Edge and GPRS service.
And Dynamic PDCH is TCHF that system convert to PDCH due to high Edge demand.(that's a parameter which define a threshold for this conversion from TCHF and PDCH)
Add thanks and REP to continue fairly

[parsarka]

Hi Beny,
Can you please tell me how to calculate EDAP Congestion in Huawei system & how should i come to a conclusion that i need additional E1 for a site with high data traffic??

[parsarka]

Try BsCVMAx and T3168
can u please tell me how to calculate EDAP congestion in Huawei & how to remove the congestion?
please reply as its urgent

[parsarka]

any response from the experts??

[manson]

[QUOTE=beniy;89292]Yes this is true.
But we did not consider about erlang for GPRS.
We say, Payload(KB).
Please share 3G Optimization cases with HSDPA cases....

[Processor]

@ Mr David
U should also check ur MaxPdchHighload cause some
Ppl increase the value of this parameter to enjoy and show
Good throughputs for Edge after activation without considering
CS traffic

[beniy]

any response from the experts??
for channel congestion:

([A9003:Number of Failed Uplink GPRS TBF Establishments due to No Channel]+[A9203:Number of Failed Uplink EGPRS TBF Establishments due to No Channel])/([A9001:Number of Uplink GPRS TBF Establishment Attempts]+[A9201:Number of Uplink EGPRS TBF Establishment Attempts])*{100}

[beniy]

can u please tell me how to calculate EDAP congestion in Huawei & how to remove the congestion?
please reply as its urgent
In Huawei you should
Application success rate in ABIS.
you should add more Idle Time slot for site.

Please add thanks and rep to continue fair.

[electron]

Hi all,


What is correlation between Time congestion and GPRS traffic?

How we can understand in one cell time congestion is because of GPRS traffic?


Thanks

[netter2k]

Hi Beniy,
Tell me please how to calculate CDEF and CDED?
If one cell has low traffic GPRS (voice traffic normal), do relation it with wrong calculation CDEF or CDED?
Thanks.

BR//Netter

[hakimgsm]

I hope that this doc can help you.

[ghamiz]

Can anyone share the formula for GPRS and EDGE Throughputs in UL direction for Nokia considering both ACK and UNACK Modes?

[breezle_yuwei]

if abis resources are limited, how IP abis works?

[ghamiz]

Dears,
i observed that blocking in GPRS/EDGE case is seldom used, i have searched over internet but not much usage of the KPI is used. I want to know how will radio blocking for (E)GPRS will be calculated for Nokia BSS.

Can anyone help?

[jerry_yek]

Hi,
Some of my BTS cells experiences high PDCH Blocking % since last week. However the PDCH Utilization counters remain low, data traffic has not increased much as well.
I'm out of ideas to check what causes the high PDCH Blocking. Any advice is most welcome. My network is using both E******* and ******** BTS.
Thanks.

[haq_enam]

Hi,
Some of my BTS cells experiences high PDCH Blocking % since last week. However the PDCH Utilization counters remain low, data traffic has not increased much as well.
I'm out of ideas to check what causes the high PDCH Blocking. Any advice is most welcome. My network is using both E******* and ******** BTS.
Thanks.


1.Check traffic of those cell first.
2. Any EPDCH are there...?
3.Look into ABIS path..If abis path is narrow whatever u have resources availiable in the Cell it will not work.
4. Hard Blocking/Soft blocking?
5. Increase more PDCH for MS

[ghamiz]

Dear,
What steps should be taken if the soft PDCH blocking is high on a cell? Also I observed -ive blocking in many cells due to the fact that the assigned timeslots are greater than the requested timeslots? What does this signify? I am talking about Nokia BSS.

[beniy]

Hi,
Some of my BTS cells experiences high PDCH Blocking % since last week. However the PDCH Utilization counters remain low, data traffic has not increased much as well.
I'm out of ideas to check what causes the high PDCH Blocking. Any advice is most welcome. My network is using both E******* and ******** BTS.
Thanks.
Hi
Check TBF per timeslot(PDCH) and increase TBF per Timeslot with parameter.

[beniy]

Dear,
What steps should be taken if the soft PDCH blocking is high on a cell? Also I observed -ive blocking in many cells due to the fact that the assigned timeslots are greater than the requested timeslots? What does this signify? I am talking about Nokia BSS.
I didn't understand..
How did you find out this?
Which query???? requested timeslot??? Is that DT???

[ghamiz]

dear i used the stats...in the stats the number of assigned timeslots was greater than the number of requested timeslots...e.g. the request was of 2 TSL but 3 TSL was allocated...and thus if I calculate the soft blocking it will be -ive. Also this is true for both UL and DL directions.

[beniy]

PDCH on G1800 is very good for TBF_per_timeslot but notmuch for throughput(for sites which have not enough abis resources) and drop rate.

[abhijeet00721]

Hi,

How to calculate EDGE Throughput per BSC?


//Avijeet

[beniy]

Hi,

How to calculate EDGE Throughput per BSC?


//Avijeet
((Kb*kb)/s)/kb

you should find one counter which unit is kb*Kb/s and divid that by total payload in kb
for example in huawei
=l9528/l9527
Throughput of Downlink EGPRS Users LLC PDU

Measurement Counter

L9528: CELL_LLC_TX_DOWN_EGPRS_LLC_PDU_THRPUT_RATE

Description

This measurement provides the throughput at the downlink LLC layer of EGPRS users in a granularity period.

Unit

Kbit x Kbit/s.

Measurement Point

Each time the service transmission is complete on the downlink TBF of EGPRS users, the transmission rate of LLC PDUs is calculated. The transmission rate is equal to the number of transmitted bytes divided by the transmission duration. This transmission rate multiplied by the number of transmitted bytes yields the throughput of transmitted LLC PDUs. In the end, the throughput is accumulated to the counter.

Formula

This is an original counter without involving any formula.


Total Bytes of Downlink EGPRS Users LLC PDU

Measurement Counter

L9527: CELL_LLC_TX_DOWN_EGPRS_LLC_PDU_TOTAL_BYTE

Description

This measurement provides the total number of bytes at the downlink LLC layer of EGPRS users in a granularity period.

Unit

byte.

Measurement Point

When the BSC sends a DOWNLINK LLC PDU to the SGSN and the user is a EGPRS user (see measurement point A), the bytes of the DOWNLINK LLC PDU are accumulated to the counter if the DOWNLINK LLC PDU is not the signaling about attach, detach, PDP context activation, PDP context deactivation, or routing area update.


Formula

This is an original counter without involving any formula.

[bhanuas]

And Rep to continue docs and knowledge sharing!:)
9425
9426

Please if you can post these document in credit free section or kindly email me at bhanuas@yahoo.com

[ch4nnuxer]

Dear Mr Beniy,

Could you share formula how to calculate PCU Load in HW vendor.??.

Thanks.

[beniy]

Dear Mr Beniy,

Could you share formula how to calculate PCU Load in HW vendor.??.

Thanks.
In Huawei we have GDPUP board utilization and DSP utilization counter which can help us to estimate PCU load.
That's raw counter.

[jayk]

Dear Mr Beniy,

Could you share formula how to calculate PCU Load in HW vendor.??.

Thanks.

Huawei BSC6900 uses DPUd board for PS Processing. VS.DPU.CPULOAD.MAX, VS.DPU.CPULOAD.MEAN used to check CPU load of DPU boards. PEAK.USAGE, AVERAGE.USAGE is used for DSP CPU measurements. There are other counters used to calculate Transmission Quality of NS Layer over Gb interface.

[timedomain]

good 'n successful topic,
i want to ask, if throughput is low, only reason is lack of idle timeslot?,
also some tbf assignment problems, in the formula tbf congestion is not included, how to overcome.

which stats do you use for which cases, can you please share

thanks in advance..

[jayk]

good 'n successful topic,
i want to ask, if throughput is low, only reason is lack of idle timeslot?,
also some tbf assignment problems, in the formula tbf congestion is not included, how to overcome.

which stats do you use for which cases, can you please share

thanks in advance..

TBF Congestion can be eliminated by increasing "static time slots" or increasing "Max PDCH Rate" in cell. Multiplex thresholds can be changed, that can reduce TBF congestion but will not improve throughput.

Average Throughput of Uplink GPRS LLC per User(kbps)
Average Throughput of Downlink GPRS LLC per User(kbps)
Average Throughput of Uplink EGPRS LLC per User(kbps)
Average Throughput of Downlink EGPRS LLC per User(kbps)

These KPI's can be used to check any improvement.
All parameters and counters are Huawei specific. Add reputations and thanks if you found useful..

[beniy]

TBF Congestion can be eliminated by increasing "static time slots" or increasing "Max PDCH Rate" in cell. Multiplex thresholds can be changed, that can reduce TBF congestion but will not improve throughput.

Average Throughput of Uplink GPRS LLC per User(kbps)
Average Throughput of Downlink GPRS LLC per User(kbps)
Average Throughput of Uplink EGPRS LLC per User(kbps)
Average Throughput of Downlink EGPRS LLC per User(kbps)

These KPI's can be used to check any improvement.
All parameters and counters are Huawei specific. Add reputations and thanks if you found useful..
Dear Jayk,
Thanks for cooperation keep continue.

Dear timedomain ,

And one another thing is MCS usage which can refer to the UM interface.

[timedomain]

as i understand, suppose sufficient idle timeslots, mcs usage depends on radio quality. if bad C/I, low MCS usage?

[jayk]

as i understand, suppose sufficient idle timeslots, mcs usage depends on radio quality. if bad C/I, low MCS usage?

I agree..If C/I is bad enough then MCS utilization will be higher on Lower MCS values.

[beniy]

I agree..If C/I is bad enough then MCS utilization will be higher on Lower MCS values.
In this thread you can find one picture which I shared and you can see the relation between c/I rx_level and mcs usage.

[bhanuas]

HI Every body,

I want to know about soft blocking & methods to improve it.

[teletopix]

Get same stuff for TASR at below,..

Low TCH Assignment Success Rate (http://www.finetopix.com/showthread.php?24943-Low-TCH-Assignment-Success-Rate)

[striker]

After swapping from 2000 to 6000 most of the cells has increase TBF failure? may I know what counters to check? could someone upload all the counters for GPRS & EDGE? and the formulas? excel will be good..

[kartheek]

Hi,

One query here regarding the timers for extended UL TBF and delayed DL TBF... These are implementation specific.According to spec the timer values should not be more than 5s under normal scenario.

My query is whether these timers are configured in PCU... also are they different for different MS?

My thinking is that they are maintained per TBF but the value is same for all MS in that particular PCU... for ex: for all MS say MS1 -MS4 this value if set to 4s stays 4s only... there shouldnt be any scenario where for MS1 its configured as 4s and for MS2 its 3s and so on.Here all MS1-4 are serviced by the same PCU.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks and Regards,
kartheek.

[beniy]

@striker: If you have hedex you can find all the counters in exel file.I have not any experience about this swap.... But check that's GPRS or Edge failures?Uplink or downlink?? Due to no channel or MS noresponse or due to other reason??

[beniy]

@kartheek: I didnot get your point..This counter is cell level....and will be same for all MSs which are in this cell.

[striker]

@ beniy,


I've checked the counter in the alex and the sudden increase was FAILTBFEST something to do with the lack of resource for reservation. I'm still checking what might be the cause..Parameters was never change since it's the same euipment both are RBS of Eric from 2000 to 6000. It's so strange cause not all cells being swapped increase in TBF failures. And the traffic are just the same..

[kartheek]

Thanks Beniy...

That was the doubt.. .whether it is maintained at cell level.

A further question on this... is the MS aware of this timer value?

Is it passed onto the MS through any particular message?

Thanks and Regards,
Kartheek.

[songhence]

why articles like this obtailed so much reputation? So beautiful world....

[beniy]

@ beniy,


I've checked the counter in the alex and the sudden increase was FAILTBFEST something to do with the lack of resource for reservation. I'm still checking what might be the cause..Parameters was never change since it's the same euipment both are RBS of Eric from 2000 to 6000. It's so strange cause not all cells being swapped increase in TBF failures. And the traffic are just the same..
yes, little strange....please do DT (CQT) in all coverage area of cell especially in border of cell and chech cell celection reselection and...

[beniy]

Thanks Beniy...

That was the doubt.. .whether it is maintained at cell level.

A further question on this... is the MS aware of this timer value?

Is it passed onto the MS through any particular message?

Thanks and Regards,
Kartheek.
No,
Ms is not aware of this parameteres but you can check System informatin 13 to see which information is transferring between....

-----
Thanks and rep if that was useful

[beniy]

why articles like this obtailed so much reputation? So beautiful world....
I did not get your point....If this article is not useful for you...you can leave here....

[kartheek]

Thanks again Beniy...

Have some more queries in GPRS and EDGE concepts...

This query is regarding GPRS and EGPRS MS multiplexing on same PDCH. The exact topic would be MS synchronisation during GPRS EGPRS Mux.

The spec 43.064 (sec 6.6.4.1.1.2)specifies that in such case each type of MS needs to be sent atleast a block in the modulation format it supports every 360ms.

Am not sure how this 360ms time is arrived at.

Any comments?

Regards,
Kartheek

[beniy]

Thanks again Beniy...

Have some more queries in GPRS and EDGE concepts...

This query is regarding GPRS and EGPRS MS multiplexing on same PDCH. The exact topic would be MS synchronisation during GPRS EGPRS Mux.

The spec 43.064 (sec 6.6.4.1.1.2)specifies that in such case each type of MS needs to be sent atleast a block in the modulation format it supports every 360ms.

Am not sure how this 360ms time is arrived at.

Any comments?

Regards,
Kartheek
It will send some message about MS capability when PDP context activation is establishing and in (e)gprs channel request or Ack/Nack it will send every needed information to network

[tapas_k]

Dear Mr Beniy,

Could you share formula how to calculate PCU Load in HW vendor.??.

Thanks.

Hi ,

For E*******, PCU utilisation = GSLUTIL/ GSLSCAN.




GSLUTIL

Accumulation of the percentages (GSL devices in use / maximum GSL devices possible to use) taken at each scan.







Units: sum of percentages for each scan





GSLSCAN

Total number of scans of the PCU taken in relation to the GSL device utilization.


Thanks.

[mkk123]

I am new in GPRS analysis and I ask about how know the Download & Upload speed for the network, I use TEMS 9 or 10 and I need reporting about DN & UP speed for GPRS/EDGE ?

Thanks for all

[ash_bansal]

Hi All,
I want to know, how we can check whether assigned PDCh re propery optimized i.e. have we assigned the dedicated PDCH properly, neither more than required not less than required.

[beniy]

I am new in GPRS analysis and I ask about how know the Download & Upload speed for the network, I use TEMS 9 or 10 and I need reporting about DN & UP speed for GPRS/EDGE ?

Thanks for all
Check RLC throughput

[beniy]

Hi All,
I want to know, how we can check whether assigned PDCh re propery optimized i.e. have we assigned the dedicated PDCH properly, neither more than required not less than required.
MS according to its class always is requesting max timeslots...i.e. if it was class 10 it will support 4 timeslot in dl and if it get 3 means less than capability.
there is some counters in oss which you can find for diffrent class how many pdchs assigned.
-----------
Add rep if it was useful
BR,
Beniy

[kadry]

Hi All,
I have Huawei Vendor ,I noticed that some BSCs the Max Download 16 Kbps ,
Many users complains about this problem
I have checked the radio parameters-->no problem ,no blocking
also there is no blocking on idle time slots
also there is no blocking on Gb link
the problem in all cells of two BSCs
what is the problem

[almoqbali36]

hi expert
How we can come out that this cell have low data throughput due no enough E1 in E*******???

[beniy]

Hi All,
I have Huawei Vendor ,I noticed that some BSCs the Max Download 16 Kbps ,
Many users complains about this problem
I have checked the radio parameters-->no problem ,no blocking
also there is no blocking on idle time slots
also there is no blocking on Gb link
the problem in all cells of two BSCs
what is the problem
My friend it should be one limitation from core,IPBB, ISP or Gi link.
Some times which our ISP limited internet as a security issue we had this problem.
One time Gi links dropped same issue.
One time IPBB links caused this issue.

[beniy]

hi expert
How we can come out that this cell have low data throughput due no enough E1 in E*******???
You can add another E1 or active Abis optimization feature (It needs hardware board)

[almoqbali36]

You can add another E1 or active Abis optimization feature (It needs hardware board)

appreciate your replay, but my question how you confirm that X cell has low EDGE throughput due to limited E1? What is the indicator for that
B.R

[kadry]

Thank you all,
about Gi or another interface ,there is no problem because the problem happened on 2 BSCs only another BSCs no problem
about Abis interface ,there is no probelm because i have checked the congestion on Abis interlace due to request of PDCH
about new board there is no problem because it was ok before

[almoqbali36]

appreciate your replay, but my question how you confirm that X cell has low EDGE throughput due to limited E1? What is the indicator for that
B.R

hi all
any 1 can help

[kadry]

depend on the vendor
but all vendors to if the code scheme low for example in Huawei :if you don't add idle time slots on ABis interface you will find that the maximum code scheme CS2 or MCS2
also you can find in STS :congestion on ABis interface due to idle allocation
to get MCS9 you should have 4 idle time slots on ABis

Thank you

[kadry]

tell me which vendor you have i will tell you more detailed

[Muhammad Imran Rafique]

Hi Beniy,

I have two questions regarding increase in PS traffic in 2G.

1) From 3G-2G lot of traffic is being pused and it resulted in degraded KPIs. I need to know if we have just 2 FPDCH in one cell how many MS can be accomodated. (considering all are 4 DL TS capable)

2)Our TBF limit UL & DL is 20, will it impact on higher TBF establishment failures.

BR//
Imran

[beniy]

Hi Beniy,

I have two questions regarding increase in PS traffic in 2G.

1) From 3G-2G lot of traffic is being pused and it resulted in degraded KPIs. I need to know if we have just 2 FPDCH in one cell how many MS can be accomodated. (considering all are 4 DL TS capable)

2)Our TBF limit UL & DL is 20, will it impact on higher TBF establishment failures.

BR//
Imran
1)Per PDCH maximum 7 MS for uplink and 16 MS for dl
2)No, just your throughput will be decrease.
-------
add rep to continue fairly

[almoqbali36]

tell me which vendor you have i will tell you more detailed
the vendor is e*******

[almoqbali36]

1)Per PDCH maximum 7 MS for uplink and 16 MS for dl
2)No, just your throughput will be decrease.
-------
add rep to continue fairly

what us the perfect values for TBF limit UL&DL???

[Muhammad Imran Rafique]

So Beniy,

Can we limit number of MS or user per PDCH.

I.e. We have only one PDCH and then you mean 16 MS will be sharing it. Please confirm.

BR//
Imran

[beniy]

So Beniy,

Can we limit number of MS or user per PDCH.

I.e. We have only one PDCH and then you mean 16 MS will be sharing it. Please confirm.

BR//
Imran
Yes my friend, I described in previous posts.
U can limit with parameter sepratly for ul and dl.
yes even if you have one PDCH 16 MS can share that for DL session.

[bhanuas]

Please tell what are the parameters for enabling multislot access in ZTE system

[dacoder]

hi
some of the cells in our network is facing worse TBF drop rate and failure rate and the reason is mainly due to MS No Response and N3105 Overflow. Anyway to solve the issue?

thnx

[shihab]

Hi Dear

I am having a problem in some sites that I can’t get data from the site for examples:
We already attend some sites which having no Data in different times and we found as below
- First time, we can’t brows in sector two but other sectors were fine
- Second time, we can't brows in sector 3 but other sectors were fine.
NOTE: all this. Issue in one site

[beniy]

hi
some of the cells in our network is facing worse TBF drop rate and failure rate and the reason is mainly due to MS No Response and N3105 Overflow. Anyway to solve the issue?

thnx
MS No Response is mostly refers to bad um interface conditions (quality, level..) and sometimes bad and unmatch software version of BTS

[parsarka]

Hi Experts,
I have NSN system with present TBF Success Rate varying around 93%.Please suggest me how to improve to improve the same to 96% as that is the target.Suggestions on BSC timers & parameters will be helpfull.I have already increased the BS_CV_MAX to 15.Also tried to increase T3168 but resulted into heavy degradation i nTBF SR.The network also has extended UL TBF feature enabled which is a mandatory from the customer.Also suggest how to increase GPRS THRPT.

[parsarka]

Any updates experts?

[dacoder]

Any updates experts?
you can try changing default coding scheme to get higher throughput.

[ghamiz]

Hi Experts,
I have NSN system with present TBF Success Rate varying around 93%.Please suggest me how to improve to improve the same to 96% as that is the target.Suggestions on BSC timers & parameters will be helpfull.I have already increased the BS_CV_MAX to 15.Also tried to increase T3168 but resulted into heavy degradation i nTBF SR.The network also has extended UL TBF feature enabled which is a mandatory from the customer.Also suggest how to increase GPRS THRPT.

BS_CV_MAX = 15 :O are you kidding me, change it to 9, this will definitely improve your KPI. Do share the results. Also note that as you've enabled EUTM, you may not improve it above 96%!

[ghamiz]

any response from the experts??

EDAP is a strict NSN concept, not available in Huawei!

[jayk]

Hi Experts, please provide explanation of two parameters in Huawei-"Reassignment TBF for Different Trx" and "Maximum PDCH numbers of carrier" BR, Jack.

[rjcell]

I have ever meet low throughput due to idle timeslot setting is zero

[Muhammad Imran Rafique]

Hi Experts,

We have 900 and 1800 different BCCH in our network for colocated sites. Edge time slots are only defined on 900.

Kindly let us know how we can make sure that all EDGE capable mobiles will go to 900 Band. any feature or paramter ?

Please note : Master PDCH is not an option for us. E******* BSS is implemented

BR//
Imran

[ash_bansal]

Hi Beniy,
Thanks for reply.
Can you tell the counters in E/// suystems

[kema2103]

Hi,

do you have any document about PS capacity management?

thanks and regards.

[apurvabelekar]

Hi,
Can anyone pls explain when actually PDCH allocation Failure pegg and how hardblocking happens. are these both same or inter related to each other. I am working for PS IRAT Optimisation where I found that wen IRAT is failing the same day PDCH allocation failures are also more but Hardblocking was not observed much.

Regards,
Apurv

[ghamiz]

as far as my understanding goes, PDCH allocation and hardblocking are the same. If there are no resources allocated, hardblocking will be pegged.