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billaugust
2009-07-24, 07:41 PM
Hi Guys,
As we know that over 70% of the voice services and over 90% data services come from indoor. Which means the indoor network planning may become very important in the whole network planning procedures (indoor and outdoor).

But as far as I know, if we compared planning tool resources between indoor and outdoor, we can see a signinificant difference. For outdoor, there are plenty of mature commercial tools (i.e. TCPU, Asset, Planet, Atoll etc, etc...) . Although each tool has there own advantage and disadvantage, we can still see the general outdoor network planning procedure is quite the similar.

However, for indoor is a quite different story. I can not find many comprehensive tools (except Rf-Vu). Most of the tools are quite simple either Viso or Auto-CAD based plug-ins.

So here are my queries and some thoughts on them,
1. Do you think if it is necessary to have a comprehensive indoor planning tool?
From my understanding, to have a indoor planning tool is useful. As we know the indoor planning procedures are more detailed than outdoor (at least when using the tool). As indoor solution not only consider the RF parameters for the antennas but also need to consider the configuration of the distributed antenna system (including cables, splitters, combiners, repeaters etc...). The tool can help to draw the design papers and assist to control the transmit power and noise in the system.
A comprehensive indoor planning tool may have more enhancements. The most improvement is the consideration of the wireless environment. The tool may use some accurate propagation model with 3D inbuilding models to predict the exact pathloss between the transmitter and receiver. The pathloss may then used to predict the antenna coverage (i.e. pilot power).
Such improvement maybe helpful for the RF engineer to design the indoor system, but I am not sure if is the necessary? What do you think? :)

2. What functionalities do you think are very important for a indoor planning tool?
a). link budget
b). comprehensive indoor solutions and components (passive DAS, fiber DAS, distributed basestation or picocell and femtocell)
c). accurate wireless signal prediction
d). CAD edit environment
e). comprehensive reports. (cable routing, project budget etc.)
f). noise analysis

3. The future/evolution of the indoor network planning tools.
Two factors may drive the indoor tools even more important in the near future. One factor is the frequency of wireless system trends to be higher which means higher penetration. The other is data service become more and more important, which means the capacity may become a major concern as coverage.
So here are my thoughts on the future indoor tools.
a). Capacity planning
The capacity planing will based on the accurate pathloss prediction and indoor service modelling. Quite similar to outdoor planning tool, it can help the engineer to predict the exact capacity the indoor system can provider and/or further help the engineer to improve the capacity.
b). Indoor-Outdoor Co-planning
As the indoor system acts as a whole system with outdoor macrocells, the influence between the indoor and outdoor system is very important. Things like indoor to outdoor or outdoor to indoor interference and handover can be modelled and optimized by the tool.
Full 3D analysis may also become a interesting point, as the intereference may be different from one floor to another. To model the signal in a full 3D manor could be more helpful.

What do you think? :o Any comments are more than welcome. :D

kaka.enine
2009-07-24, 08:32 PM
actually Mentum already combine their Radio planning tools between outdoor & indoor, that's why on recent release ...
RF-Vu viewer always include in installation software ...

the problem is ... we can't afford on using original version from them ...
the price they offer have possibility to drive us crazy after all ...

& the main problem ... no free or cheap solution so far ...
& until those time come ... we have to use old style of planning ...

:D :D :D

billaugust
2009-07-25, 12:07 AM
Thanks Kaka.
Yes, the price of the tool is another big issue. :)
Although Mentum combine RF-Vu, but actually they do not have many interaction (interference or handover etc.) between each other. Basically, just for signal illustration only.

DCA
2009-07-25, 12:15 AM
Maybe ATDI - ICS telecom will give more of what you need

gnrladel
2009-09-03, 02:16 AM
interesting ,, thank you

hassen
2009-09-03, 06:01 AM
Hi
talking about GSM
in general we use planning tool for outdoor and we take into consideration building loss 20db
i mean if the receiving signal was -85dbm for outdoor accordingly for indoor -105dbm .
so we should plan sites for a signal level outdoor -65dbm .
The only problem that can exist is interferance at the top floor of a building.
in this case there is feature like FAS to find a clean frequency .
As indoor solution we have to consider the RF parameters like CRo in idle mode in order to ovoid subscriber from outside to camp to the indoor cell,and to reserve the radio resources "data services " as example for internal use .
and also it is preferable to use 1800 with low output power for indoor solution.
layer1 and high Ho margin for dedicated mode "voice services ".
Br hassen

nabil el haddani
2009-09-03, 06:27 AM
Here is an interesting document explaining the indoor planning guidelines..
Enjoy and i'm waiting for ure tks and rep ;)

GSM_Huawei
2009-09-03, 11:45 AM
I known a man sell patch for VuPro 4.2 but price is 2.000 USD

gnrladel
2009-09-14, 12:39 PM
hello brother ,
i need to ask you some thing ,, i have some autocad floor plans ,, ".dwg" can i import them to ics map server , i need to do a wifi planification of a building and i dont know how to make ics telecom can read those floor plans

help me please

elche
2009-09-14, 03:01 PM
In case of an existing network,unless you have very detailed plans of every building in the area, nothing beats a Tems pocket drive test (or walk test?) inside the buildings. Specially since furniture, layout , cubicles, decoration, cell load etc will greatly affect how the signal spreads inside the building. Any well calibrated tool will give you an idea of trouble spots if you assume fixed penetration losses.

For a new network you cannot entirely rely on what an indoor planning tool will predict since it is only a mathematical model, and again furniture , layout etc will affect the final outcome and it can be very time consuming to put all that info on a tool. So again, you can only assume some parameters which is just as hassen posted before you will assign fixed signal loss due to penetration/building structure.

Also some people will not like a picocell on a visible area so you will have to visit the site anyway to locate the available intallation spots. There is no better tool than floor plans and an experienced RF engineer on the field to guarantee coverage.

BR

mamontonok
2009-10-13, 02:50 PM
I known a man sell patch for VuPro 4.2 but price is 2.000 USD

Hi. Tell me please, this patch in order to be able to run the RF-VU without a password?

nguyentienphuong1710
2010-05-20, 01:27 PM
thank U !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

tuanvios
2010-06-07, 06:52 PM
Please infrom guy to me, I am Huawei staff too:p




I known a man sell patch for VuPro 4.2 but price is 2.000 USD