Ceragon RFU-D new ODU

[simog72]

Hi friends
during recently closed MWC17 event,
Ceragon published a new kind of ODU named RFU-D, probably an evolution of RFU-C(the old Design).
Probably the D version transceivers makes use of some kind of SubBand free technology (similar to already available IAP/IAG NEC ODUs)

I'm searching some detail on this new project because I have very limited performance figures on that

thx

[binartech]

The Info I have is new IP20C will support 4096QAM on single 112 Mhz channel with one IP20C you will be able to get 2Gbps and 2 x IP20C 4Gbps with MIMO.

[Cost_Reducer]

IP-20C will not support 4kqam and 112Mhz. To what I know the IP20C will not be enhanced. The new RFU-D will support 4kqam and 112Mhz. RFU-D is a SplitMount type of ODU with a Cat5 or Fiberoptic to the IDU instead of IF-cable.

Can you share some details on the Sub-Band free approach NEC has?
I heard Nokia will have it too with its new MW platform

CR

[binartech]

IP20C will remain as is, but there will be a full outdoor unit with 4K QAM support similar to the IP20C. Probably first unit will ve Split. 4096 QAM is very sensitive to noise and environment, thus probably for reliability you need more processing power and until this may be integrated in a single unit a Split unit may be offered but it's a matter of time to get to the full ODU.

[Cost_Reducer]

You are right, the first version is a Solid Mount type RFU which supports 112Mhz & 4096QAM. They will also have SplitMount E-Band Radio which makes the IP20N a Multitechnology nodal system. Quite interesting offering I believe.
Yeah, 4kqam is sensitive to noise, hence I believe the 4kqam is something for Marketing and to push some Best Effort traffic ahead of Committed Traffic. Don't think that anyone will design its network based on 4kqam.

[simog72]

Agree with you that In general 4096QAM provide few % of capacity more ( 5 -7%) with high impact on noise sensitive
but (IMHO) the players able to provide 4K demonstrates superior capability in RF production and design.

So at least it's a sign of superior cares in process and component selection, so"maybe" you could expect better performance also in other conditions

For exemple ...the fact the Ceragon IP20C or Cambium PTP820 modulates @ 1024QAM in 80MHz channel , it doesn't give me so much confidence

[Cost_Reducer]

Yes, it demonstrates high RF performance, however, all players except Ceragon source their components on the market. Cera develops their on modem and RFICs. At least it gives them control over the specs and performance while the others are depending on the 3rd party vendor. Well, t there are always two sides which need to be considered.
I believe Ceragon will closer the gap to the others soon and will have their own 'nice to sell' features.
Can you share some more info on the Sub-Band free solutions?

[simog72]

...i'm sure more then one player use proprietary solutions for RFIC and/or for Modems

in anycase i would be focused on offer better performance and quality for the customer instead on "how i reach that"

just my opinion..



what's your curiosity about suband free NEC ODUs?

[Cost_Reducer]

"Sub-Band free" sounds great as a Marketing Term, i'm interested what it is about technically. Is it for specific bands only or for the entire range from 6Ghz to 42Ghz? Any idea about Insertion Loss for such a model?

Back to the 4kqam, you made the point! Better performance is always more appreciated than the Marketing words of 'how i reach that'. As performance, i'd define it as System Gain and Radio Capacity.

[ajwan]

Agree with you that In general 4096QAM provide few % of capacity more ( 5 -7%) with high impact on noise sensitive
but (IMHO) the players able to provide 4K demonstrates superior capability in RF production and design.

So at least it's a sign of superior cares in process and component selection, so"maybe" you could expect better performance also in other conditions

For exemple ...the fact the Ceragon IP20C or Cambium PTP820 modulates @ 1024QAM in 80MHz channel , it doesn't give me so much confidence

[simog72]

ajwan...just copy paste?

:D

[simog72]

availability seems 3Q/17 for first freq

[Mr Brahim]

Yes, it demonstrates high RF performance, however, all players except Ceragon source their components on the market. Cera develops their on modem and RFICs. At least it gives them control over the specs and performance while the others are depending on the 3rd party vendor. Well, t there are always two sides which need to be considered.

[simog72]

sorry for disappointing you MR Brahim...Are present other vendors that use internal resource to produce their components ;
I know some of them that have internal labs , white rooms and productions chain..

I can start with Intracom Telecom (greek) , SIAE Microelettronica (Italy) and Ceragon (but starting from few years ago )
I know that Ceragon used Remec radio just few years ago : up to 2001 (this is not an opinion)..
and Ceragon Marketing (too much aggressive IMHO) now talks about proudly having a MW specialist history ...
I don't dislike Ceragon products I think are good , just I try to come back to reality and not biasing on rumors generated by marketing departments ...

I know also MW vendors that produce some components (for internal use) that at the end are also sold to other MW vendors ..because are simply good components (Oscillators, Amplifier , converters etc)


so just double check before saying: CITATION BY YOUR POST "all players except Ceragon source their components on the market".. this is extremely False

[simog72]

NEC Sub band free ODUs support on 7/8/11-23GHz with band free filter using NEC original technology

[binartech]

CRNT can say they have the expertise because the company that used to design their microwave components is now part of the company.
They bought Elxys Innovations which was the company behind their microwave components, part of CRNT since 2010.
But as you said, they are not the only one.
Most companies sell more than they actually have, in fact much more. Aviat said it has a multichannel Microwave, but it's not true, it will be available in the next one or two Qs, DragonWave the same case, they announced a multichannel ( dual) microwave unit but, it's still not available.

CRNT was the first to release a dual channel , cual core microwave ina single ODU and now the rest are announcing this equipment, and while they are announcing the first equipment, Ceragon is taking the multichannel technology to all their Radios (almost).

[simog72]

it seem you need to sell some Ceragon stock option :D

This is not a race who is bringing innovative technologies on the market otherwise we should say other brands name

[binartech]

Here new brochure with las incorporated features in some equipments: new IP-20C High Power, and 4096 QAM in IP20-A and IP 20-GX and RFU-D supporting 4096 QAM:

https://www.ceragon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/FibeAir-IP-20-brochure-July-2017-Online-ANSI.pdf

[simog72]

2018...it s a roadmap

[binartech]

Not Road map, checked with Ceragon, Split mount and all indoor available now, High power modules and 4096 QAM. All outdoor is not supporting 4096 QAM yet.

[Cost_Reducer]

New RFU's and interface cards to connect the new RFU's to the IDUs will be available end of 2017. So for now it is on the Roadmap but will be soon reality

[OnyekaZack]

the basic IP-20C feature set has a Wide Range of Channels 28, 40, 56, 112 MHz

[HuNtEr-rEtUrN]

e fact the Ceragon IP20C or Cambium PTP820 modulates @ 1024QAM in 80MHz channel , it doesn't give me so much confidence

[Cost_Reducer]

What confidence are u looking for?