Microwave Link : XPIC + 4096QAM

[simog72]

Hi
I'm just try collecting experiences from people here.

A lot of MW vendors is declaring today a 4096QAM modulation modem support but it is not clear if this highest modulation schemes can be applied in real case scenario in 1+0 only or also in XPIC

according to my knowledge could be (on paper) possible on:
HUAWEI: XMC3+950 IDU or RTN320
NEC: IPasolink VR + IAG ODU or IX
INFRACOM: OMIBAS OSDR
SIAE Microelettronica: ALFOplus2
DRAGONWAVE: Harmony MC (exist?)

who has tested or who is using a MW link with 4096QAM modulation in XPIC configuration?

[omid373]

Salam Simog,
4096Q mostly is being used for marketing purposes.Because a 4096Q link is not reliable because of high sensitivity to noise or usual issues on MW links.We have RTN XMC3 + ISM6 if boards which support 4096Q , but it is not supported in all frequency bands , specially with XPIC.for example in 38G modulation higher than 1024Q is not supported.
Also with Intracom(Infracom?) 4096q is supported as I know. But again with Intra com , we don't use it even on non xpic links because of availability/quality issues on high QAM modulations.
Br.
omid

Sent from my HUAWEI G750-U10 using Tapatalk

[numas]

Hi Simog72

according to my knowledge and my "in-field" experience i can tell that i saw (and i see daily) some working link at 4096QAM and XPIC (and ACM)
It's an Italian Microwave product named ALFOPlus2 (Siae Microelettronica)
It's a compact single box dual carrier with 4xGbe ports (similar to IP20C but with XPIC canceller @ 4096QAM , little higher sysgain and upto 112MHz channels capability)
i saw working links in 18GHz, 23GHz and 11GHz freq ranges

i saw with my eyes throughput close to 1.2 Gbps in 56MHz channels (XPIC ) at 4096QAM (without any compression)
and close to 2.1Gbps with compression upto L3.

in my visibility , at the moment, there is not any point to point microwave supplier capable to XPIC 2channels @ 4096QAM


i m curious to know other forum users experiences

[hmursalin]

from field experience, 4096QAM doesn't work as it is supposed to with slightest signal fluctuation causing high BER

[simog72]

hi Hmursalin
thanks to bring your experience here

can u please share what was the model of the microwave u tried in field ?

and what was the geographical area?

[hmursalin]

We had a field trial with iPASO VR4, however it was over a water body which was one of the problems. The link worked fine with 1024QAM.

[megadragon25]

Tested with 2048 QAM with XPIC and 56 Mhz Channel, in AGS020 from SIAE works fine 1.8 Gbps

[simog72]

Megadragon25
thanks to you too for bringing your expertise here!

Can u explain better how was the set up to reach a 1.8Gbps in a 2x56MHz channel Xpic?

According to my knowledge :
SIAE Microelettronica AG20 (split) cannot operate @ 2048QAM/XPIC (only in Non XPIC)
only the ALFOplus2 (full outdoor) operates @ 4096QAM , 2x112MHz and XPIC at same time

in any case 2x56MHz XPIC@2048QAM brings more or less 2x500Mbps

so I suspect u implemented a 4+0 Split mount or you was on with the Header Compressor


can you better explain?

thanks

[megadragon25]

Hi,

sorry for my late reply i was working out of city... on field if you are keep looking for information I give a document with our solution (I am an engineer of SIAE).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xali4nkn38l5d7k/AGS20%20N%2B0.pdf?dl=0

[megadragon25]

It's possible to work with XPIC but you require licence for use the XPIC.

[simog72]

Hi Megadragon25
I had a look at the attached file

I had confirmation that in 56MHz even in XPIC u can not reach 1.8G with AGS20
this result in your file where you show that u need to branching 4 ODU to do that

as I know today ALFOplus2 is the only one capable to offer 2.5Gbps single box 4096QAM / 112MHz / XPIC
ALFOplus2 is from SIAE u should know better :D

it also seems AGS20 is not able to manage 2048QAM in XPIC this is true?


in my visit in MWC17 I saw roadmap from MW suppliers that is trying to do what ALFOplus2 does today.
in particular:
-AVIAT WTM4400
-DRAGONWAVE Harmony+ MC

I had no opportunity to see if Ceragon roadmapped an evolution of the old IP20C to cover the missing 80MHz/2048QAM and 112MHz/4096QAM cases

anyone had opportunity to see Ceragon booth?

[binartech]

Hi Simog, Think sent you message.
Ceragon will have 2Gbps single box new IP20C with 4096 QAM 1 x 112 Mhz. 4 Gbps 2 x IP20C (new model) I think available by october.

[simog72]

Hi binatech
nice to ear new developement from Ceragon.. 3 years freezed with IP20C!

but...According my knowledge and according to the tech spec you are sharing here:
with 1x112MHz even in 4096QAM you can reach only 1gbps max

so it is still not a single box 2Bbps machine ...

are you sure that has just one channel @112Mhz? (maybe it can use 1x112MHz in XPIC..2x112MHz CCAP ?


thanks

[binartech]

Look at the document linked below:

With single IP20C DP CCDP you use the two radio cores inside it and you achieve 1 Gbps with single 56 Mhz channel and 2048QAM. (page 19)
New IP20C you achieve 2Gbps with 4096QAM and single 112 Mhz channel.

With MIMO (page 24) you achieve 4 Gbps with two (new) IP20C boxes which again has two radio cores.
The new IP20 line extends the multicore technology to most IP20 Products and not just the IP20C.


http://www.air-broadband.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Deutsch/Datenbl%C3%A4tter/Ceragon/Ceragon_FibeAir_IP-20C_Technical_Description_C7.5_ETSI_Rev_A.06.pdf

[simog72]

new future entry in the Dual Carrier single ODU Arena

AVIAT 4000 series

WTM 4200 dual carrier (4kQAM , 112MHz XPIC)
WTM 4100 single carrier


used Chipset for modem : Maxlinear
http://www.maxlinear.com/aviat-networks-selects-maxlinear-for-new-wtm-4000-the-highest-capacity-microwave-radio-ever/

Product availability WTM4100 : end 2017 - start 2018

[Cost_Reducer]

will be interesting to see the performance of this radio in reality. They claim highest capacity on the market with 2.5Gbps uncompressed. But they dont tell you that they achieve this with small Ethernet frames only. From their datasheet it even looks like they need MLHC to reach 2.5Gbps
Capacity Range:
o Airlink Capacity: up to 1093 Mbit/s (single channel WTM 4100) or 2186 Mbit/s (dual channel operation WTM 4100 with A2C, or WTM 4200)
o Ethernet Throughput: up to 2500 Mbit/s, single or dual channel, with Multi-Layer Header Compression (actual throughput dependent
upon traffic/frame size mix


Anyone able to share a Product Description of this ODU?

[simog72]

40505
40506


some slides to see roadmap and some details

one details is interesting: the comparison with IP20C..at the end also Aviat has understood that when you go infield with IP20C the total size and weight is too much vs competitors compact solutions..
that's because you need to add external branching even for simple arrangements

[Cost_Reducer]

one details is interesting: the comparison with IP20C..at the end also Aviat has understood that when you go infield with IP20C the total size and weight is too much vs competitors compact solutions..
that's because you need to add external branching even for simple arrangements

interesting indeed! Wondering why they state that IP-20C + OMT weight 11.6kg...most probably they added the antenna as well :confused:
The ODU itself is 6.5kg, no matter what frequency (why does Aviat calculates it with 11Ghz? How does it look like with other frequencies?) and the OMT wieghts ~2.5kg which is 9kg.
Another thing is that with Ceragon's OMT solution you can keep existing Ceragon antennas, meaning if you have a network with previous generation of IP-10 with RFU-C ODU you can simply upgrade it without replacing antennas. Is it the same for Aviat??

[simog72]

As usual each vendor try to push his solutions..

As i know the IP20C External branchng is not 2.5kg but close to 3.5kg (probably 4) please provide , if u can, some doc where they state the KG of external branching !


About the back compatibility of IP20C branching with RFU-C .. you are right it's nice to have feature
About the back compatibility of IP20C branchgin with IP10C ...you are right ..but they sold 2 hundreds of IP10C Worldwide (very bad project) so this is not the case of benefit! :D


Aviat probably is going starting with single carrier first ..i dont think other vendors , Ceragon, SIAE, DRW can be soon worried by this WTM4xxx manace

[binartech]

Why WTM 4xxx will be a threat ?
First they will have single channel initially, they confirm that and will be available in the next three to six months.
This are the first multi channel equipment while Ceragon is installing them since end of 2013 and in microwave experience and maturity is very important.
DragonWave has bigger problems than having or not certain equipment or technology. I don't think they may survive, without a miracle they will be bankrupt before years end !

The only thing Ceragon doesn't have yet is 4096 QAM which will be available from about October. Even though till now 4096 QAM is not demonstrating being important since its very noise sensitive compared with 2048 QAM which is very robust. Will see how good is Ceragon 4096 QAM. Aside that a dual channel IP-20C is much more efficient than any other dual channel and their frequency reuse is unique to Ceragon !

[simog72]

Can you please technically explain why IP20C is more much efficient than others dual channel competitors in a real infield installation use ?