Working for an operator or for a vendor ?

[fahmi]

What is better for a newly graduate engineer :

Working as an integration engineer with a vendor.
Working as a RF planing and optimisation engineer with an operator.

thank for your answers :confused:

[proy1_10]

If you want money work for a vendor.
If you want to be calm work for an operator.

BR

[pravdivi]

I think vendor is better place for work, but it depends on what you are interested in.
For me is better to work as integration engineer.

[venom]

What is better for a newly graduate engineer :
Working as an integration engineer with a vendor.
Working as a RF planing and optimisation engineer with an operator.
thank for your answers :confused:

If you like to make you own decisions under less pressure then work for operator.
If you like to learn and wants to absorb the pressure then work for vendor. Also vendor pays better money than operator but some operator pays better benefits.

[byja]

I work for a vendor, and I'd suggest you start with an operator.
And there's no more money in working for vendors, thanks to chinese vendors...

[capcipcup]

I work for a vendor, and I'd suggest you start with an operator.
And there's no more money in working for vendors, thanks to chinese vendors...

yeah thanks to chinese vendors.....:(

[rffreeconsult]

If you want to understand deeply the features & networks. Go work for operators, vendors' philosophy is to "shoot & scuttle" go in fast and hit, try to shoot right for the KPIs targets by whatever means (they have some tricks in the bags like measurement of KPI & drivetests @ 3AM when network load is slightest...tons of other, not to reveal-confidentiality obliged)...U will be under pressure to hit quick and withdraw & move to the next one while working with operators, you will develop a better understanding of traffic-network-optimization-planning (Operators you try to stretch the existing ressources while as vendors you try to sell as much (sites/BTS/nodeB/Equipment) as you can.

[intros]

If you want to understand deeply the features & networks. Go work for operators, vendors' philosophy is to "shoot & scuttle" go in fast and hit, try to shoot right for the KPIs targets by whatever means (they have some tricks in the bags like measurement of KPI & drivetests @ 3AM when network load is slightest...tons of other, not to reveal-confidentiality obliged)...U will be under pressure to hit quick and withdraw & move to the next one while working with operators, you will develop a better understanding of traffic-network-optimization-planning (Operators you try to stretch the existing ressources while as vendors you try to sell as much (sites/BTS/nodeB/Equipment) as you can.

yeap, you're 100% right!
1. Vendors makes you sell more and more, not letting you to develop yourself too much, they have strict procedures of "satisfying" customers. You will learn only vendors equip nothing more!Pays are usually better than operator's, but you will have to start almost from the beginning if you change your job frequiently!
2. Operators makes you develop faster becouse they need to get back their invested money(Return of Investment). They usually have equips from different vendors, and this is in your benefit! More, you have a real network to work with, and not vendor's fantesy!
Good luck!

[D33T0X]

Newly graduate - working for operator is recommended. Working for vendor - lots of pressure, no time to develop.

[venom]

As a newly graduate , everyone should focus on getting a job rather than deciding Operator or Vendor.

These days market for fresh graduates is saturated.

[fahmi]

Ok, thank for all of you for replying to this thread and to conclude :
I think that working for an operator is more beneficial than a vendor from an experimental side, beacause I noticed that with an oparator there will be a continious training for engineer, but with a vendor you have to rely on your self. Also, working under pression (which is the case for a vendor) is not a good way to learn and it doesn't permit to go deeper in solving problems because of "deadlines".
From the material side, I notice that the majority of you considers that vendors are better payer than operator which is not the case (at least for my case). Also when you start with an oparator and then move to a vendor there will be more potential to negociate with the vendor and have a better salary.
This what I am seeing and I will be waiting for your critics.

[ventinel]

Ok, thank for all of you for replying to this thread and to conclude :
I think that working for an operator is more beneficial than a vendor from an experimental side, beacause I noticed that with an oparator there will be a continious training for engineer, but with a vendor you have to rely on your self. Also, working under pression (which is the case for a vendor) is not a good way to learn and it doesn't permit to go deeper in solving problems because of "deadlines".
From the material side, I notice that the majority of you considers that vendors are better payer than operator which is not the case (at least for my case). Also when you start with an oparator and then move to a vendor there will be more potential to negociate with the vendor and have a better salary.
This what I am seeing and I will be waiting for your critics.
hi fahmi... training thing also depends on the operator u are working for.. generally here in pakistan, it is the vendor who trains more than the operators do... but still i recommend RF optimization over integration... best of luck :)

[dmitry28]

I work for the operator It gives me the opportunity to experiment and additional knowledge of the operating network. There is also a large set of software and hardware

[rm77]

Hi;
I think it depend also of the policy of the operator and the nature of your job.
some of them (at least in my country ) every thing is doing by the equipement vendor and there subcontractor, for example some project from the desgne until the integration.
the operators are only seeking for leading the market.
so I think for recent graduates working for supplier is better than operator, it is true that there are mor presión, but you will have more control over an axis.

it's just my opinion.
BR.

[croleg]

After working in operator - next step is work in vendor.

[Ahmed_attar]

i think working for the vendor makes you learn technical skills faster than operator but in the other hand if you worked in operator your will learn managerial skills faster than vendor.
it depends on what you want and how you c your self in future.

for me there is no good manager with no good technical skills...

[firstmaxim]

With the concept of managed services catching up, we find many a operators outsourcing back to the vendors. Also, new technologies like LTE-A brings in features like Self Optimization, which will impact workers at every level- whether it be installation, planning, optimization or maintenance, since networks will be able to self-install and configure ( like in plug and play); self-optimize; co-ordinate interference between cells, coordinate packet scheduling, as well as self-heal.


Its nice to see the comments on operator vs. vendor? Many a times people are not faced with this choice. Think of it. Sometimes, we need to get to like what we have got. With networks becoming smarter, the future of telecom jobs seem to be foggy at best.

[fashion master]

There are many technical websites that could serve as a reference. Also there are many textbooks. I would recommend you use these resources rather than bothering somebody at a corportation, but if you must contact the public relations department at one of the companies.

[zloy_qwer]

Best choise, IMHO work in one-two different vendors (3-5year), later go to operator (to understand operators internal flow), then go to one of key Vendor into high position (KAD, Service manager, ect..)

[Mr_Piongly]

Hi
This topic in my opinion, if you want to be realistic, have to be related with the big question that you can find here
http://www.finetopix.com/showthread.php?22196-is-optimization-going-to-dead/page3

Mr firstmaxim in his last reply in effect goes to recall about "the future in job telecom".... and its near big transformation

[THIOMS]

Hello,
For me, if you are a junior it's better to work in a vendor because you win a lot of money and experiences.

[omar mohsen]

if there is any Egyptian engineer that can help me in finding a good vendor in Egypt that i can find a job opportunity???

[ahmedsabry]

Vendor
1- Hard work
2- More Money
Operator
1- Easier than vendors
2- Less money
3- Better in working places

[MOONRAISE]

What is better for a newly graduate engineer :

Working as an integration engineer with a vendor.
Working as a RF planing and optimisation engineer with an operator.

thank for your answers :confused:
I think work for operator is better

[ryuzaki_steven]

it's all depend on your passion and your calling :)

[Azimut]

It's true...working with vendors is quite stressful

[garry]

I will say one thing. Over my years, I only got smarter working for vendors. The operator environment made me lazy and stupid. I got out of operators because of that. For a graduate, its best you learn the real stuff and work harder before relaxing at the operator.

[D33T0X]

I didn't want to say it myself but I kindda agree with garry here. However there are still guys working for operators which are good... and as well guys at vendors which are lazy and not knowleadgeable. But in general you'll develop better in a vendor environment if that's what you're after.


I will say one thing. Over my years, I only got smarter working for vendors. The operator environment made me lazy and stupid. I got out of operators because of that. For a graduate, its best you learn the real stuff and work harder before relaxing at the operator.

[rm77]

I didn't want to say it myself but I kindda agree with garry here. However there are still guys working for operators which are good... and as well guys at vendors which are lazy and not knowleadgeable. But in general you'll develop better in a vendor environment if that's what you're after.
i'm with Garry and D33T0X for 100%;

as new graduat; i think it's better to work with vendor and after that you will be more than wellcome in any operator.

[Rf_optimizer]

Hello,
Working as RF Planning & Optimization is much lucrative as compared to that of integration. Initially stick yourself with vendor take multi vendor experience then go ahead with senior position in Operator & gain stability.

Regards

[winston]

what is the minimum years that one should work on vendor before moving on to operators?

[D33T0X]

Impossible question - depends on individual.


what is the minimum years that one should work on vendor before moving on to operators?

[xmission]

I agree with someone who mentioned above that there is no more any money in vendors. Not to forget, its actually the operators that are minting it, not the vendors.

[ryuzaki_steven]

in my country, operator are starting to let go network operation and going to be full service manage for efficiency and cost, the network operation are full responsible to vendor which is used by operator. From this situation you can decide yourself which is a suitable one, if you like to analyze network then you are more suitable in vendor, if you like to make some creative service to make the operator get more revenue then you are more suitable in operator. i don't know about another country, maybe you can share here :):)

[lamagica]

vendor:

+ bigger salary
+ specialized in the field

+/- more pressure

operator

- less salary (obviously_

+ more chance to learn other subjects, not only how to achieve sdsr, tch drop rate, cssr cs etc..

as a vendor you will get pressure from your superior only, when you worked in operator you will also get pressure from your boss and the subscriber.
wether working in operator or as a vendor makes you lazy it really depends on the person :) sometime a persons became bored due to repetitive work, you should also consider this.
those are what i can thik of.

[testtest]

What are the market telecom consultant per day rate? with 3 year 5 year or 10 year experience. RN, Core or transmission Enggg.

[testtest]

anyone ? ......................

[dmjoguns]

start with vendor first to get experience before going to operator for the money.

[croleg]

Operator is better, definitely!

[CptSomeone]

I work for an operator for 10 years now. For several years I had the impression that fellow engineers working in vendors are in a better career path than mine (more expertise on the platforms,access to those valuable "internal" documents-oh, I so hate not being able to just check their database as I please- many more different projects involved with, more experiences in different countries, more money etc).

As the years passed though, I realized that the satisfaction you get from your job in an operator, is not to ignore. You develop "your" network, you attract "your" subscribers, you get to develop strong relations with co-operating teams (and that hidden, or less hidden, antagonism between radio and core teams!). At the end, you enjoy all that effort you put in developing, upgrading,switching, ,fixing, experimenting with your network.

I have the feeling that vendor guys start and finish a project and then go to the next one. Exciting, yes. Money is good, yes. But their "achievements" are not "theirs. You know what I mean?

If you asked me now, if I got the chance back then to chose a career path, I would stick to being an operator engineer.

(My country doesn't have any big vendor offices, only sales representatives work here anyway!)

[lihanbok]

Hi Everyone,
In my country, it is advantage and disadvantage work for operator or vendor.
1. If you work for Vendor, You have many opportunity to improve your knowledge and to learn new telecom technology. Your salary is high, you are easy to fire if Vendor don't have project ( your job is astable).
2. If you work for Operator. You only learn some course about new technology when Operator want to deploy. You always teach yourself. Your job is stable.
This is only my opinion.
BR,
Lihanbok.

[tb_gzy]

wow,but i'm chinese.i'm in china

[ashraferto]

Hi Everyone,
In my country, it is advantage and disadvantage work for operator or vendor.
1. If you work for Vendor, You have many opportunity to improve your knowledge and to learn new telecom technology. Your salary is high, you are easy to fire if Vendor don't have project ( your job is astable).
2. If you work for Operator. You only learn some course about new technology when Operator want to deploy. You always teach yourself. Your job is stable.
This is only my opinion.
BR,
Lihanbok.


Totally agree with you

[saullow]

vendor = work a lot
operator = no money

[pravdivi]

Hi Everyone,
In my country, it is advantage and disadvantage work for operator or vendor.
1. If you work for Vendor, You have many opportunity to improve your knowledge and to learn new telecom technology. Your salary is high, you are easy to fire if Vendor don't have project ( your job is astable).
2. If you work for Operator. You only learn some course about new technology when Operator want to deploy. You always teach yourself. Your job is stable.
This is only my opinion.
BR,
Lihanbok.

Exactly my situation, i was working for vendor, and when our project become not so profitable i've been fired

[lihanbok]

If you do for vendor or operator, You are still lucky . If you work for subcon, you don't have high salary and stable.
BR,
Lihanbok.

[indiaco]

vendor = work a lot
operator = no money

Really ??? try working for vendors in South america. You get pretty much the same money than the operator's guys. You job is not as stable and off course you can be fired upon any of these sinergies going on...
I think the best choice is to work either for a vendor or operator for 3-4 years and then go freelance. Yo will have less stability but the money is way better.
B.R.

[pravdivi]

you have to be in right time in right place, when operator just starting business and you have good qualification - you will get good salary. same with vendor.

[tukangoptim]

for old guy like me, operator is better option for sure.
anyway, there is no such word as "stable" nowadays in telecommunication my friend..

:)

[zaebolll]

Hi Everyone,
In my country, it is advantage and disadvantage work for operator or vendor.
1. If you work for Vendor, You have many opportunity to improve your knowledge and to learn new telecom technology. Your salary is high, you are easy to fire if Vendor don't have project ( your job is astable).
2. If you work for Operator. You only learn some course about new technology when Operator want to deploy. You always teach yourself. Your job is stable.
This is only my opinion.
BR,
Lihanbok.

nice post, good comparison

[tomsg]

to me, it would be good if we ever work for vendor and operator for some projects.

[humanity421]

Really ??? try working for vendors in South america. You get pretty much the same money than the operator's guys. You job is not as stable and off course you can be fired upon any of these sinergies going on...
I think the best choice is to work either for a vendor or operator for 3-4 years and then go freelance. Yo will have less stability but the money is way better.
B.R.

hi friend,
what do you mean by freelance??
i know freelancing, and i have done that in software/IT but how do you do it in RF field?? is it possible to do freelancing for Optimization, DT, etc??
or you mean to be a subcontractor??

[T_ADD]

The one advantage I see for working for a vendor is getting access to internal documents. To what level only depends on vendor. A Huawei Engineer once told me, they have access to more documents in Huawei compared to when they were working for say Nokia or ********.

Also, not all vendors pay better than operator. In the case of Huawei or ZTE I don't think so.

RF Optimization is good and challenging but as for me I prefer more of BSC work, OAM/upgrades and troubleshooting, fault finding.

Hope this helps, some what.

[mhut]

What is better for a newly graduate engineer :

Working as an integration engineer with a vendor.
Working as a RF planing and optimisation engineer with an operator.

thank for your answers :confused:
I think you should begin at operator, you can learn many things: equipment, planning, designing, optimzing of mutil vendors.

[khatib86]

What is better for a newly graduate engineer :
Working as an integration engineer with a vendor.
Working as a RF planing and optimisation engineer with an operator.
thank for your answers :confused:

If you have these two options then you're a lucky guy (since that you're a fresh graduate), but I'll recommend you to work as an RF Engineer,

[dietcha]

vendor:

+ bigger salary
+ specialized in the field

+/- more pressure

operator

- less salary (obviously_

+ more chance to learn other subjects, not only how to achieve sdsr, tch drop rate, cssr cs etc..

as a vendor you will get pressure from your superior only, when you worked in operator you will also get pressure from your boss and the subscriber.
wether working in operator or as a vendor makes you lazy it really depends on the person :) sometime a persons became bored due to repetitive work, you should also consider this.
those are what i can thik of.

About salary, the bosses of operators have more from service...

[ningjiabing]

working for vendor is recommended, you have more chance to learn.

[lihanbok]

When you was young, I think you should work for vendor. Because you have many opportunity to improve your knowledge, go to many countries,.... If you are older and married, I think you should change to operator. It is good for you. You have time to take care your child or home,... ( You should prepare your future)
It's my opinion.
Best Regards,
Lihanbok.

[johnsonsem]

My point of view is depend on the job scope. I think second choice is better.

[RF-SYR]

I like working with operators
Enjoy



What is better for a newly graduate engineer :
Working as an integration engineer with a vendor.
Working as a RF planing and optimisation engineer with an operator.
thank for your answers :confused:

[khurrambilal01]

Actually working with Operator or vendor has it's own Charm and Pros, Cons.

Working with Vendor pays you more, Learning to a specific field is alot, But most of the vendors give you a very tough time.So you can't continue your whole life with vendor when the work load is high.

Working with operator gives you diversification, Improves your personality, Work load is managable & the best you know is that your evey step is affecting your company and its customers in positive or negative way, So it feels good to add reputation to your company by improving user perception.

[RF-SYR]

Thank you dear for this reply

[anhl]

Agreed. Unless multiple offers are made, then one can decide which job is better.

[latha]

You should work for vendor which you can gain a lot iexperiences

[RF-SYR]

You should work for vendor which you can gain a lot iexperiences

But from salary point (Benefits... ) of view, I think operators is better than vendors.

[pravdivi]

If it is not chinese vendor it possible to get good salary

[RF-SYR]

If it is not chinese vendor it possible to get good salary

Do you mean, vendors salaries are better than operators?

[pravdivi]

Do you mean, vendors salaries are better than operators?
It depends of many factors, but it is so, from my experience. I cant say about all telecommunication market.v You can earn good salary even from chinese vendor.

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[Jerry]

to me, working in vendor and operator both have good things. so better try to work both. operator is better for older ones and vendor is better for new.

[thuti]

What is better for a newly graduate engineer :

Working as an integration engineer with a vendor.
Working as a RF planing and optimisation engineer with an operator.

thank for your answers :confused:

I think if you a fresh engineer, you should work for vender when you have a choice. So, vendor want experience engineer because they use person in projects. For this reason, operator is better choice for you. I think so! :p

[rffreeconsult]

Jerry has made an absolutely excellent remark..I do agree w/ the comments...Otherwise, Huawei (and to other extent: HTE) has made the cover of the illustrious magazine "The Economist" for this week...Telco folks should read the coverage on the company and see the trend of our industries so that they can better position themselves w. the wind...

[circuitman]

Hello,
Forget about Operators, Vendor engineers generally have deeper information while operator engineers need help from vendor engineers.

[dimooon11]

It depends. Really.
Worth to try at both sides - absolutely different experience.