CE utilisation

[dacoder]

Hi
In our network I observed that UL CE utilisation is much higher than DL CE utilisation. Is this normal ? In BH, average DL CE utilisation of network is around 12% while for UL its around 35%.

Thanks

[tareq1010]

Yes it is normal. The CE consumption in UL is higher than in Dl

[wolverine]

Typically CE cost is proportional to Spreading Factor. As SF is higher in UL (double) the CE utilisation is higher.

Additionally a lot of PS traffic still originates from UEs that are HSDPA capable in the DL but R99 DCH in the uplink. So your DL CE are not affected but your uplink
CE are.

[adewijaya]

for Huawei its NORMAL, CE not consume on DL HSDPA. Huawei separeted CE consumption for this. (pros of huawei equipment). Its took HSDPA CE only on UL CE

[Philippe]

Do not forget that channel element (CE) consumption per service is not standardized but depends on the vendor. Also, some have dedicated boards for HSDPA and/or HSUPA, so not consuming CE. Some need CE for HSUPA (and it i often quite consuming).
So for a vendor not consuming CE for HSDPA, the R99 PS uplink and HSUPA CE consumption will be higher than the DL consumption if a lot of PS services are mapped on dowlink on HSDPA instead of DL R99 PS.

[dacoder]

Hi guys... thanks for the explanation. So for Huawei equipments CE are not consumed for HSDPA? its used only for HSUPA and R99 services?
Anyone have documents explaining this?

Thanks

[agenov]

Hi guys... thanks for the explanation. So for Huawei equipments CE are not consumed for HSDPA? its used only for HSUPA and R99 services?
Anyone have documents explaining this?

Thanks


For HSDPA 1 CE only because of associated DCH channel.

BR

[ahmadruslani]

Hi experts,

one of my nodes has UL CE utilization at 89% during busyhour. What else can I do to reduce it beside take out PS384 and maintain DC HSPA+?

[xantan1977]

HI
For HSDPA, no additional DL CE utilised. So CE is used for RRC,AMR and R99 only while on the UL, HSUPA utilise CE. Hence quite normal to see UL CE utilisation significantly higher than DL CE.

[andoniwireless]

Hi ahmadruslani.. which BBU type do you have (3800 or 3900).. and the question is..

How many CE do you have in UL and DL..?


Regards

:D
Andoni

[ahmadruslani]

Andoni,

My DL CE utilization is lower compare to UL CE. I notice that my node will used up more CE when there are multiple concurrent HSUPA users.

[shishio]

Hello experts,

can anyone explain to me the relationship between number of channel elements (CE) and walsh codes in a cdma system?

[andoniwireless]

Andoni,

My DL CE utilization is lower compare to UL CE. I notice that my node will used up more CE when there are multiple concurrent HSUPA users.


Of course @ ahmadruslani you always will more CE DL used because the congestion will be in the uplink.. Why is the question..?? The aswer is because all your users that are downloading on R99&HSDPA is Uplonding in R99 using CE UL.. but you will have a litle reduce of this CE when you have most of the users on HSUPA.

You can try making some change of the licence kit of the CE from the DL to the UL.

If you are using Huawei with BBU3800 you need to make a CE expansion, because when you active the HSUPA services in it model the BBU reserved 64 CE for default.

Regards.

Andoni

[andoniwireless]

Hello experts,

can anyone explain to me the relationship between number of channel elements (CE) and walsh codes in a cdma system?


****


Channel Elements
Better services more CE used...

Walsh Codes.. better services SF lower.

Regards

Andonni
:D

[boring]

Hi

UL CE consumption is much higher than DL mainly because of HSDPA (which has fixed CE consumption). effectivelly, with a fixed number of CEs multiple UEs can be served but its UE requires its own CE for the uplink (either R99 or HSUPA)

the mapping between CE and SF are as follows:

SF64 --> 1
SF32 --> 1
SF16 --> 2
SF8 --> 4
SF4 --> 8
2SF4 --> 16
2SF2 --> 32
2SF2+2SF4 --> 48

you should also bear in mind that soft handover makes the condition even worse for UL CE consumption.

HSDPA is not affected at all, whereas both R99 or HSUPA (depending what it used for the reverse channel) is affected by soft-handover overhead

hope this helps

[dodotiro]

Hi

UL CE consumption is much higher than DL mainly because of HSDPA (which has fixed CE consumption). effectivelly, with a fixed number of CEs multiple UEs can be served but its UE requires its own CE for the uplink (either R99 or HSUPA)

the mapping between CE and SF are as follows:


SF64 --> 1
SF32 --> 1
SF16 --> 2
SF8 --> 4
SF4 --> 8
2SF4 --> 16
2SF2 --> 32
2SF2+2SF4 --> 48

you should also bear in mind that soft handover makes the condition even worse for UL CE consumption.

HSDPA is not affected at all, whereas both R99 or HSUPA (depending what it used for the reverse channel) is affected by soft-handover overhead

hope this helps


adding some comparison between vendors

22461

[tester]

@dodotiro
Please share full PPT

[agenov]

i wouldn't believe it so easy. Dont trust what H// says in their presentations just like that. Test it or ask someone and then make a conclusion. if someone in the forum can provide personal test results for CE consumption between vendors then i can agree.



adding some comparison between vendors

22461

[kevin_h811]

Hi Boring,

Can you say that we could lessen congestion on UL CE if we downtilt the antenna?

I have this issue also, but based on drivetest, the site I'm mentioning is overshooting, could this possible contribution why I have congestion on UL CE and not on DL CE? This is not a fully utilized NodeB.

Regards//

[boring]

Hi Boring,

Can you say that we could lessen congestion on UL CE if we downtilt the antenna?

I have this issue also, but based on drivetest, the site I'm mentioning is overshooting, could this possible contribution why I have congestion on UL CE and not on DL CE? This is not a fully utilized NodeB.

Regards//

yeap. dowtilting an antenna especially for an overshooting cell always helps to reduce the congestion of UL CE

but be careful. as I said to a previous e-mail from the moment you activate HSUPA then always you become UL CE limited, because every UE has its own CE allocation in the uplink whereas HSDPA has a shared allocation in the dowlink

[melkaiy]

guys anybody hav documents on how to optimize CE congestion in UL and DL in 3g nad 2G?

[dodotiro]

@dodotiro
Please share full PPT

the full PPT is already in this forum. i just capture on slide in them

[tester]

Post please the link to this PPT

[dodotiro]

Post please the link to this PPT


@ tester : here the link http://www.finetopix.com/showthread.php?9216-NodeB-Channel-Elements in the #9 post by aygo named case study of channel element configuration. please add reputation to aygo :)

[dodotiro]

i wouldn't believe it so easy. Dont trust what H// says in their presentations just like that. Test it or ask someone and then make a conclusion. if someone in the forum can provide personal test results for CE consumption between vendors then i can agree.

@agenov pratically it happens in my network. previously we used NSN, and suffered with CE congestion. but after swap with huawei. the site number with CE congestion reduce significantly.

[EngSoft]

@agenov pratically it happens in my network. previously we used NSN, and suffered with CE congestion. but after swap with huawei. the site number with CE congestion reduce significantly.

@dodotrio ,

can you please let me know if you found the reason for the diffrance , a, also in a project where we swap a NSN by huawei and it seem that the CE utilization is less ! any idea ?

[agenov]

It depends actually for example you may have different number of UL CEs at NodeB or some specific features in Huawei related with optimization of CEs consumption are opened after swap and in previously you didnt have them or something similar....

BR
Alex


@agenov pratically it happens in my network. previously we used NSN, and suffered with CE congestion. but after swap with huawei. the site number with CE congestion reduce significantly.

[adewijaya]

Nope, this differencies at Baseband method. in Huawei vendor for HSDPA using different Baseband unit processing for DL, that's way its more efficient

[THIOMS]

Hi,
I want to know how to make CE dimensioning in huawei network

[zloy_qwer]

For decrease UL congestions best way is allocate more CE in M2000 to this Cell.

[helper]

hi
its true for the network which uses HSDPA for DL and for UL PS384. ie, HSDPA and HSUPA doesnt consume CE..