relation between active set & monitoring set

[fahmi]

Hi experts,
If a cell is not defined as a neighbour cell ( monitoring set ), can we find this cell in the active set list ?

A SHO could be made with a non neighbour cell ?

thsnk you.

[Walid Madih]

Hi Fahim,

In 3G you can handover to a cell even if it's not define as neighbours:
If you have 2 cells in Active Set thers's a algorithm than can combine both neighbours of active set in one condition than this combination number will not exceed 32 ( max support in one Measurement control).
Thers's also some new features in Huawei that can make handover based on detected cells.

Regards,
Walid

[fahmi]

Hi Fahim,

In 3G you can handover to a cell even if it's not define as neighbours:
If you have 2 cells in Active Set thers's a algorithm than can combine both neighbours of active set in one condition than this combination number will not exceed 32 ( max support in one Measurement control).
Thers's also some new features in Huawei that can make handover based on detected cells.

Regards,
Walid

So if a handover occurs with a non neighbour cell, why we talk about a "missing neighbour cell" problem ??:confused:

[Walid Madih]

So if a handover occurs with a non neighbour cell, why we talk about a "missing neighbour cell" problem ??:confused:

Hi Fahmi,

The 1st condition is to have the target cell definied as a neighbours in one of the active set list.
This will not be all the time allow if you have many neighbours define by cell as the combining algorithm make first the neighbours of the best cell.

Regards,
Walid

[Darko]

So if a handover occurs with a non neighbour cell, why we talk about a "missing neighbour cell" problem ??:confused:

He was talking about active set cells neighbor list combining. If you have two or more cells in the active set then we are talking about SHO and in this case neighbor list is combined as a union of all active set neighbor lists.

[stilloboy]

Hi experts,
If a cell is not defined as a neighbour cell ( monitoring set ), can we find this cell in the active set list ?

A SHO could be made with a non neighbour cell ?

thsnk you.

First, if a cell is not defined as a neighbor cell, it can not appear in the monitored set. So, it must be defined, first, as a neighbor cell for it to be able to make it into the active set, given that a HO event (event 1A, 1B, or 1C) has been triggered. It is when the cell makes it into the active set that it can participate in a SHO process.
Needless to say that a SHO can't be made with a cell that is not in the active set.

Kind Regards

[DJ Download]

First, if a cell is not defined as a neighbor cell, it can not appear in the monitored set. So, it must be defined, first, as a neighbor cell for it to be able to make it into the active set, given that a HO event (event 1A, 1B, or 1C) has been triggered. It is when the cell makes it into the active set that it can participate in a SHO process.
Needless to say that a SHO can't be made with a cell that is not in the active set.

Kind Regards

I agree with stilloboy, it is not possible to perform a handover to a cell which is not defined as a neighbor. The closer the UE is to the undefined cell the more interference the UE will experience because the UE cant take the benefit of combining the signal from the undefined cell with the signal from the current serving cell (the SHO process).

Certain vendor e.g. E******* has a parameter that limits the power difference between the undefined cell and the serving cell which can trigger drop call if the difference is bigger than the threshold (release connection offset parameter)

[Mr_Piongly]

Hi
I know that there are 3 sets :
1) active set -> cells in SHO
2)monitored set -> cells defined as neighbours and measured
3) detected set

Some ue have the capability to detect cells that are not declared as neighbours, but I don't know if these cells could be part of a measurement report, and if that it is the case it depends from vendors (RNC tecnology) how manage this situation.
I don't know more about this case so if there is an expert about this he could give us more information

[wolverine]

Hi
I know that there are 3 sets :
1) active set -> cells in SHO
2)monitored set -> cells defined as neighbours and measured
3) detected set

Some ue have the capability to detect cells that are not declared as neighbours, but I don't know if these cells could be part of a measurement report, and if that it is the case it depends from vendors (RNC tecnology) how manage this situation.
I don't know more about this case so if there is an expert about this he could give us more information

As described above, but according to the 3GPP specs all UE are capable of detecting cells. These are reported to the RNC in a measurement report. What the RNC does from here on is down to implementation. Some just record the measurement (E*******) and let you view these as a report so you can add neighbours. Some UTRAN vendors (NSN and Huawei?) have the functionality to "guess" what cell you might be reporting (all they have is the PSC the UE reported which of course is not unique) based on distance etc and will attempt to add it to the active set (via NBAP Radio Link Addition).

Most vendors also offer the possibility to configure a threshold above which the RRC connection is released in case a UE is reporting a cell which cannot be added to the AS. As mentioned before this is a safety mechanism to reduce UL interference as the UE cannot not be power controlled by the cell that is not added to the AS.

[fahmi]

So If I've thoroughly understood what you were saying, 2 cell that appear in the same time in the active set are necessarily declared as neighbour cell, isn't it ?

[Walid Madih]

So If I've thoroughly understood what you were saying, 2 cell that appear in the same time in the active set are necessarily declared as neighbour cell, isn't it ?
Not every time.

In the case of active set having A,B and C cells ,

A can be declare with B.
B with C.
But not always A defined with C.
There's a feature for neighbours combination that allow that.

Regards,
Walid

[alexparackal]

Could you please explian the the quoted 'Most vendors also offer the possibility to configure a threshold above which the RRC connection is released in case a UE is reporting a cell which cannot be added to the AS. As mentioned before this is a safety mechanism to reduce UL interference as the UE cannot not be power controlled by the cell that is not added to the AS'
The RRC connection is available only for those cells that are in AS isnt? so how the feature helps.

As described above, but according to the 3GPP specs all UE are capable of detecting cells. These are reported to the RNC in a measurement report. What the RNC does from here on is down to implementation. Some just record the measurement (E*******) and let you view these as a report so you can add neighbours. Some UTRAN vendors (NSN and Huawei?) have the functionality to "guess" what cell you might be reporting (all they have is the PSC the UE reported which of course is not unique) based on distance etc and will attempt to add it to the active set (via NBAP Radio Link Addition).

Most vendors also offer the possibility to configure a threshold above which the RRC connection is released in case a UE is reporting a cell which cannot be added to the AS. As mentioned before this is a safety mechanism to reduce UL interference as the UE cannot not be power controlled by the cell that is not added to the AS.

[rishi]

yes it is defined as a neighbouring cell otherwise it cant be shown in active set

[cocoloco]

yes it is defined as a neighbouring cell otherwise it cant be shown in active set

So i do not understand 'Most vendors also offer the possibility to configure a threshold above which the RRC connection is released in case a UE is reporting a cell which cannot be added to the AS. As mentioned before this is a safety mechanism to reduce UL interference as the UE cannot not be power controlled by the cell that is not added to the AS'

Thank you

[DJ Download]

Could you please explian the the quoted 'Most vendors also offer the possibility to configure a threshold above which the RRC connection is released in case a UE is reporting a cell which cannot be added to the AS. As mentioned before this is a safety mechanism to reduce UL interference as the UE cannot not be power controlled by the cell that is not added to the AS'
The RRC connection is available only for those cells that are in AS isnt? so how the feature helps.

Mr. Wolverine,

Do you mean a mechanism similar like release connection offset parameter that E******* has ?