Thanks Thanks:  13
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Showing results 31 to 40 of 48

Thread: High RTWP level in Huawei UMTS network

  1. #31
    Member Reputation: 59 yhussain110's Avatar
    Join Date
    2010-03-10
    Location
    Edmonton Canada
    Posts
    131


    Default Re: High RTWP level in Huawei UMTS network

    What is RTWP?

    If you work with UMTS,'ve probably heard someone talk about RTWP. Its definition can be found in a dictionary of acronyms, such as http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/RTWP: Received Total Wideband Power.

    Represents a measure of UMTS technology: the total level of noise within the UMTS frequency band of any cell.

    RTWP is related to uplink interference, and its monitoring helps control the call drops - mainly CS. It also has importance in the capacity management, as it provides information for the Congestion Control regarding Uplink Interference.

    In UMTS, the uplink interference may vary due to several factors, such as the number of users in the cell, the Service, Connection Types and Conditions of Radio, etc..

    As our goal is to always be as simple as possible, we will not delve in terms of formulas or concepts involved. We will then know the typical values, and know what must be done in case of problems.


    Typical Values

    Ok, we know that RTWP can help us in checking the uplink interference, then we need to know its typical values.

    In a network is not loaded, normal, acceptable RTWP Average value is generally around -104.5 and -105.5 dBm.



    Values around -95 dBm indicate that the cell has some uplink interferers.

    If the value is around -85 dBm, the situation is ugly, with strong uplink interferers.

    Usually we have High, Low and Medium measures of RTWP. However, the maximum and minimum values are recommended only as auxiliary or reference, since they may have been caused by a peak of access, or even been forced to have a momentary value due to some algorithm i.e..

    Thus, the value that helps us, and has the most accurate information is the same Mean RTWP!

    For cases in which cell has two carriers, the difference between them RTWP should not exceed 6 dB.





    Based on these typical values, most vendors have an alarm: RTWP "Very High. "


    What to do in case of problems?

    We have seen that RTWP can cause performance degradation, mainly CS Call Drops. Note: Actually, it's not RTWP that causes performance degradation. What happens is that when its value is 'bad', it's actually indicating the presence of interference - the latter being responsible for degradation.

    But what can we do when we find bad values?

    If RTWP is not at acceptable levels, some actions should be taken.

    The first thing to do is check if there is a configuration issue with the RNC or NodeB. This is the most common case, especially in cases of new activations.
    Once verified the parameter settings, the next step is the physical examination, especially jumpers and cables, often partially reversed. It also should be checked if there is faulty transmitters, or any other problem that could generate intermodulation between the NodeB and the antenna.
    If the parameter settings and hardware are ok, the chance is very high that we have external interference, such as a Interferer Repeater.

    In cases where there may be external interference, we must begin to act after such a prioritization based on how much this is affecting the cell KPI's across the network, if it carry high traffic, major subscribers, etc..

    Note: There are many forms of interference in the uplink, both internal and external. Only a few are listed above. The deepening of all possibilities is beyond the goal of being simple to teach the concepts, but this is a suggestion for whoever wants to deepen the study, identification and elimination of interference.


    In practice

    to find - and eliminate - problems of interference is one of the biggest challenges in our area. For being such a complex problem, we recommend that be collected enough data for each investigation. Insufficient data collected can lead to erroneous conclusions, further worsening the problem.

    The uplink interference may appear only in specific periods. Thus, it is recommended that data be collected from at least one week (7 days) for every 24 hours. Usually this amount of data is sufficient. In the figure below, we see different days and times - colorful - a fictional example where the interference occurred.



    Data should be collected for the suspicious cell, but also for its adjacent cells, allowing it to make a triangulation increasing the chances of locating the source of interference.

    Another way to locate the source of interference is to do a test in field. An antenna guy must gradually change the azimuth of the antenna, while another professional do RTWP measurements. That is, through the information directing the antenna and the respective values of RTWP, you can draw conclusions very good.

    It is obvious that changing the online system may not be a good practice, and tests can be made with a Yagi antenna and a Spectrum Analyzer.

    Vendors offer several ways to measure RTWP, using the OSS, performance counters and logs.



    Quote Originally Posted by lpkojihu View Post
    Dear colleagues,

    We experiencing exceptionally high level for RTWP measurements for many cells in Huawei UMTS network. Such level (-85....-75dBm) can not be explained by regular interference caused by mobile phones. This is a new UMTS network with very low traffic.
    Spectrum analyzer measurements did not show any external interference sources. Typically measured RTWP with spectrum analyzer is around -110dBm

    Event measurements through UMTS cell antenna shows -110dBm level.

    Only when RRU unit is in operation the measured RTWP jumps to -80dBm.

    GSM and UMTS networks are fully separated and isolated, i.e. separate antennae used and they are space separated and only single carrier used in UMTS - this excludes any source of Intermodulation cause.

    The only problem that I can raise is a problem with RRUs. There are ~30% of cells are suffering from constant high RTWP level and 70% of cell suffering from peak levels of RTWP.

    Please, assist with possible solution. Or you may know if some issues with new generation of the Huawei UMTS equipment.

    Best regards

  2. #32
    Member Reputation: 19
    Join Date
    2011-12-14
    Posts
    17


    Default Re: High RTWP level in Huawei UMTS network

    It's related to the hardware .. RRU
    if you are using active system, then try to relevel (retune) the active system based on accurate PCPICH power and total power.

    try to upgrade the framware
    Thanks

  3. #33
    Member Reputation: 264
    Join Date
    2009-03-09
    Posts
    231


    Default Re: High RTWP level in Huawei UMTS network

    Don't know if it is still relevant.

    We are facing similar problem. Although average RTWP is within limits -> -105..-103, the maximum is much higher up to -80. The peaks are very evident in RTWP monitor - they get 1s peaks of high level (up to -80 and in one particular indoor cell up to -65).

    Spectrum analyser on the indoor cell did show any issues - thermal noise level, even we were seeing -65dBm on RTWP monitor. Then it was considered, that Path budget is too good and UE cannot downregulate power because of limitation (by 3gpp it is -51dbm). Therefore 20db attenuation has been added, however no change in rtwp monitor - not even decrease in peaks by 20dB.

    The we have limited particular types of traffic - and found the reason --> RRC setups, i.e. RACH procedure. Huawei parameters allow ramping up to max what 3Gpp permits - 20 x 2dB, backoff is the smallest of all vendors i've seen -> 20 (e// has 27 and nsn 25). Therefore we tuned RACH procedure - limited ramping, increased back off. That caused Rach failures altogether for some mobiles.

    Note, that we have on many cells, that does not seem to be installation issue, and spectrum analyser does not show anything. Disabling RACH had made RTWP monitor chart clean. I not regard it as an issue, however this RTWP monitor value is transferred to SIB7 what causes just generation of interference. Moreover this likely is causing another issue - high R99 UL RLC retransmission rate and even some RRC setup complete failures.

    We are waiting for RND reply, however i would suspect the issue is in RRU software (MRFU is doing just the same). Software version we are running is R13.

  4. #34
    Junior Member Reputation: 10
    Join Date
    2012-03-12
    Posts
    1


    Default Re: High RTWP level in Huawei UMTS network

    Quote Originally Posted by lpkojihu View Post
    Dear colleagues,

    We experiencing exceptionally high level for RTWP measurements for many cells in Huawei UMTS network. Such level (-85....-75dBm) can not be explained by regular interference caused by mobile phones. This is a new UMTS network with very low traffic.
    Spectrum analyzer measurements did not show any external interference sources. Typically measured RTWP with spectrum analyzer is around -110dBm

    Event measurements through UMTS cell antenna shows -110dBm level.

    Only when RRU unit is in operation the measured RTWP jumps to -80dBm.

    GSM and UMTS networks are fully separated and isolated, i.e. separate antennae used and they are space separated and only single carrier used in UMTS - this excludes any source of Intermodulation cause.

    The only problem that I can raise is a problem with RRUs. There are ~30% of cells are suffering from constant high RTWP level and 70% of cell suffering from peak levels of RTWP.

    Please, assist with possible solution. Or you may know if some issues with new generation of the Huawei UMTS equipment.

    Best regards
    You can try to turn off HSUPA, it's the cause for the high spikes of RTWP. You can try it for a cell since it's cell level.

    Btw, hi to all fellow optimisers out there , like keanchan and choonyeah

  5. #35
    Member Reputation: 62
    Join Date
    2009-02-02
    Posts
    31


    Default Re: High RTWP level in Huawei UMTS network

    [QUOTE=jacc121;175720]You can try to turn off HSUPA, it's the cause for the high spikes of RTWP. You can try it for a cell since it's cell level.

    I can confirm - for us it helped.

  6. #36
    Member Reputation: 47
    Join Date
    2010-08-02
    Posts
    193


    Default Re: High RTWP level in Huawei UMTS network

    I also have the same in my network. being more visible at indoor sites...
    it is almost exactly the same as you describe in here... so I start now to believe it is SW problem... please if any of you guys did open a ticket and got any answer from RNC please share at least the main cause...
    thanks !
    ps:
    I also suspect about the algorithms. for example LDR I cannot make it work... nothing is triggering it...
    thanks in advance

  7. #37
    Member Reputation: 113
    Join Date
    2011-03-29
    Posts
    46


    Default Re: High RTWP level in Huawei UMTS network

    Passive intermodulation is an unwanted mixing effect caused
    by non-linearity of passive components in the RF path. Intermodulation diverts signal energy partially to other frequencies
    (spurious), which may fall into receive bands and cause serious
    degradation of system performance.
    You should check connectors and cables with site master or PIM analyser.( 100 % you will found something ! )

  8. #38
    Junior Member Reputation: 10
    Join Date
    2010-10-13
    Posts
    3


    Default Re: High RTWP level in Huawei UMTS network

    In nodeB bts level change or MOD RXBRANCH
    attenuation from 0 to 45
    RTWP initial0 (0.1dB) from 0 to -55
    Before change this parameter make sure first cabinet - subrack and slot number.

  9. #39
    Member Reputation: 264
    Join Date
    2009-03-09
    Posts
    231


    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

    Default Re: High RTWP level in Huawei UMTS network

    Hi,

    the problem have been identified. Our setup is to have 3x of RRC release complete to be sent by UE. However RNC was setup to release RL even after reception of first RRC RELEASE CMP message. Therefore UE will have RL lost and would be ramping UL power causing uncontrolled UL interference.

    After RNC was setup to delay RL, RTWP issue was solved.

  10. #40
    Member Reputation: 143
    Join Date
    2009-01-08
    Posts
    168


    Default Re: High RTWP level in Huawei UMTS network

    How to check RNC parameter for RRC_CONN_REL_CMP? Thanks


    Quote Originally Posted by giegala View Post
    Hi,

    the problem have been identified. Our setup is to have 3x of RRC release complete to be sent by UE. However RNC was setup to release RL even after reception of first RRC RELEASE CMP message. Therefore UE will have RL lost and would be ramping UL power causing uncontrolled UL interference.

    After RNC was setup to delay RL, RTWP issue was solved.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •