VALUE MOS NEMO OUTDOOR 5.2 vs NEMO HANDY 2.9

[px150]

Dear all fam

Help fellas i had trouble with MOS by NEMO , im using Nemo Outdoor ver 5.20 and Nemo Handy ver 2.9 ( N96 ) im curious bout MOS value..i already test with NO using teratec mediafire6 for mobile to mobile, that is true the NO shown the mos value bout 2.8 ( average ) and the parameter is stable..and the 2nd scenario im using NH ver 2.9 ( N96) for mobile to mobile...and same scenario script with NO and the result is, the mos value by NH very2 strange unstable ( sometimes didnt show the value ), and the value is more higher until 3.5 than NO....:cool: how come i was read my tutorial the comparison NO (PESQ) and NH (PSM) less than 0.2 :L ?

please guys help me to solve this problem...:(

thanks

[px150]

come on guys help me :L

[DCA]

You can have one or two problems (depending on the version numers you're using)

1) You are using not an comformance (read correct filtered) sample

2) You're comparing different Pesq algo's to each other

[px150]

You can have one or two problems (depending on the version numers you're using)

1) You are using not an comformance (read correct filtered) sample

2) You're comparing different Pesq algo's to each other

sorry im not cleared :D

when i compared with nemo outdoor 5 ..it happened again but.the value between NO5 and NH2.9 not much as comparing NO4 and NH2.9, more decrease using NO5. im using the same scenario and lock the same band and channel but i still dont get it..why the nemo handy value more unstable ?

in your opininion sir DCA which the valid one for MOS measurement NO or NH ?

thanks

[DCA]

Use the ITU PESQ ref samples to get the answer straight.
Later versions of Nemo are using the P-S-Y-T-E-C-H-N-I-C-S dll and it causes trouble. Earlier versions using the O-P-T-I-C-O-M dll which is more stable. But it all depends on using the correct reference sample.

Can't tell if NO or NH is better, don't use NH myself

[px150]

oke thanks boss....

soon i will send you the doc bout comparison NO and NA from anite :D

[RF engineer]

hi my i really need your help for MOS measurement i did with nemo outdoor5.3 and i have alot of test with sample reference in nemo 4s.wav the strange is that in all radio condition i cannot get mos more than 2 in average and the volume level for mobile at max but still the what could be reason

[px150]

hi my i really need your help for MOS measurement i did with nemo outdoor5.3 and i have alot of test with sample reference in nemo 4s.wav the strange is that in all radio condition i cannot get mos more than 2 in average and the volume level for mobile at max but still the what could be reason

dear boss can you explained us your scenario and your tools precisely..what kind of sound card did u have..?

im user friendly with teratec mediafire6

[px150]

thanks DCA i found the problem

[RF engineer]

yes exactly iam using the same do you have any explanation

[DCA]

@px150

If you read the documents you've posted you alos got the answer.
Do a correlation check with the 10 different reference samples and get the average results of both NO and NH.

then you know the difference between intrusive (NO) and non-intrusive (NH) measurements ;)

[px150]

yes exactly iam using the same do you have any explanation

did u following the docs tutorial..?

[px150]

@px150

If you read the documents you've posted you alos got the answer.
Do a correlation check with the 10 different reference samples and get the average results of both NO and NH.

then you know the difference between intrusive (NO) and non-intrusive (NH) measurements ;)


thanks bro DCA . i already tested many and many times....last week ...:L but i still didnt get 0.2 comparison value of NO and NH , the value still bigger than limit and if i using NO4 it makes worst...

i had tested in several computer and 2 times re install my windows for really2 cleaned reg :(

[RF engineer]

did u following the docs tutorial..?

yes but one thing in latedt version there is no optiom of voice quality mode for"half duplex start TX

[RF engineer]

did u following the docs tutorial..?

yes but one thing in latedt version there is no optiom of voice quality mode for"half duplex start TX

[RF engineer]

did u following the docs tutorial..?

yes but one thing in latedt version there is no optiom of voice quality mode for"half duplex start TX

[px150]

yes but one thing in latedt version there is no optiom of voice quality mode for"half duplex start TX

yap the latest NO5 theres no option for half duplex tx or rx ,, just automatic set by nemo outdoor set by handset scenario for the tx and rx for get MOS value..

[RF engineer]

did u following the docs tutorial..?

yes but one thing in latedt version there is no optiom of voice quality mode for"half duplex start TX

[RF engineer]

if the second mobile donot put in the script number of first what would be as the decond one is used for evaluate the mos

[atecx5]

here, i sent the docs about set nemo voice quality

dear admin please activate my account :L i still cant access the attached files

dear admin please activate my account :(
i still cant access and download the attached files....

[atecx5]

here, i sent the docs about set nemo voice quality

dear admin please activate my account :L i still cant access the attached files

Bro" senior semua, aq masih baru di sini...

Aq cuma pengen nanya, gimana se cara nya. Biar bisa download file attachman... Tolong kasi tau caranya...
Sampe sekarang masih belum bisa download... (",)

[px150]

if the second mobile donot put in the script number of first what would be as the decond one is used for evaluate the mos

yap the first mobile set as the script tansmited and the second one use as the receiver of the script so the MOS value will display on second mobile parameter

[RF engineer]

yap the first mobile set as the script tansmited and the second one use as the receiver of the script so the MOS value will display on second mobile parameter
Dear
What would be the problem of having low MOS but radio condition is good how can i pinpoint the problem of other part like TRAU,MSC.And one more thing if i have many logfiles and want to export through nemo outdoor how can i combine them and export as one output file.
BR
RF

[nabil el haddani]

Normally the MOS depends strongly on C/I and on Rxqual especially if the frequency hopping is not used but i know that he most correlated 2G metric is the FER TCH.
Once you got your MOS or PESQ via Handy you can try to plot the CDF of the metrics above to know what's the variation of the MOS comparing with the variation of these metrics.

Just for info, when you are doing DT with Nemo handy, you must turn off the micro, there is option Micro mute: on, otherwise u will get wrong MOS values may be degradaded by 1 point. I experienced that when i was working on a voice quality project.

To combine the logs you can use the nemo wizard export to generate ure values during the whole DT, otherwise you need to open with nemo analyse and joing ure measurements to get the overall values, or use superstream function to merge the logfiles via Actix.

I hope it can help.

Br,

Nab

[px150]

Normally the MOS depends strongly on C/I and on Rxqual especially if the frequency hopping is not used but i know that he most correlated 2G metric is the FER TCH.
Once you got your MOS or PESQ via Handy you can try to plot the CDF of the metrics above to know what's the variation of the MOS comparing with the variation of these metrics.

Just for info, when you are doing DT with Nemo handy, you must turn off the micro, there is option Micro mute: on, otherwise u will get wrong MOS values may be degradaded by 1 point. I experienced that when i was working on a voice quality project.

To combine the logs you can use the nemo wizard export to generate ure values during the whole DT, otherwise you need to open with nemo analyse and joing ure measurements to get the overall values, or use superstream function to merge the logfiles via Actix.

I hope it can help.

Br,

Nab

i agree.. you can use nemo export wizard . nemo outdoor just for collect the data and use nemo analyze for the post processing

[RF engineer]

dears thanks for your support but now whar i have good c/i , FER zero and using AMR what i got for MOS not passed 2 in the same time i did in in bad bad radio condition not big difference both value close that make suspicious i would like to share any technical document through your work,and is there any nemo export wizard to support latest version as anite put export wizard inside software

[nabil el haddani]

Hi my bro,

Sorry for being late, Plz find attached 3 documents which can may be help you in ure project:

First one is Voice quality Guide using Handy : the manual give you the right way to set up your chain measurements with two mobiles, one is moving and the other one is static. Follow step by step and you will get the accurate MOS values.

two excel files with CDF MOS correlated with RF metrics such us FER, Rxqual etc etc, and also the graphs of these CDF with more details (made for benchmarking task)

fourth one is Nemo Export Wizard installer.

Btw can you send your log file with bad MOS and low RF conditions to try to dig in?

Br;

Nab

[RF engineer]

Hi my bro,

Sorry for being late, Plz find attached 3 documents which can may be help you in ure project:

First one is Voice quality Guide using Handy : the manual give you the right way to set up your chain measurements with two mobiles, one is moving and the other one is static. Follow step by step and you will get the accurate MOS values.

two excel files with CDF MOS correlated with RF metrics such us FER, Rxqual etc etc, and also the graphs of these CDF with more details (made for benchmarking task)

fourth one is Nemo Export Wizard installer.


Btw can you send your log file with bad MOS and low RF conditions to try to dig in?

Br;

Nab
Dear nabil
Thanks a lot for your support .
BR
RF

[RF engineer]

hi
The attach is the samples
BR
RF

[nabil el haddani]

I'm going to parse it and give u feedback ;)

[adnank]

dear admin please activate my account so I can access
the attached files
Attached Files Nemo Handy Voice Quality .rar (199.9 KB, 29 views)
NEMO OUTDOOR VOICE QUALITY.rar (1.73 MB, 32 views)

[px150]

I'm going to parse it and give u feedback ;)

nabil can you explained to us what is call exclude and why it happen from nemo handy ..? because some logfiles when i load to NA and go to process show me a lot of call exclude :(( makes hard to analyze . it seems the nemo handy trying to record some network performance with unusually condition... but my guess its nothing wrong with nemo handy but from NA ( bad installation or crash with another processing tools . like axtix or something )

please i need guidance from you and i trying compare with nemo principal

thanks a lot bro

lets share our knowledge about NEMO

[nabil el haddani]

As i know Nemo handy OS is not very stable, according to my experience with handy i experienced a lot of crash because of memory, OS problem, nemo panic error, and then sometimes you loose all ure recorded data, that's why it's better to use nemo outdoor for measurement, more stable than handy..so i don't think that the call exclude is coming from nemo analyse but it's coming from measurements by handy..

according to my experience, to have accurate results you need to filter on your samples by taking only the calls with duration more than one minute for ex. and exclude the calls with nemo errors.

Br,

Nabil

[px150]

As i know Nemo handy OS is not very stable, according to my experience with handy i experienced a lot of crash because of memory, OS problem, nemo panic error, and then sometimes you loose all ure recorded data, that's why it's better to use nemo outdoor for measurement, more stable than handy..so i don't think that the call exclude is coming from nemo analyse but it's coming from measurements by handy..

according to my experience, to have accurate results you need to filter on your samples by taking only the calls with duration more than one minute for ex. and exclude the calls with nemo errors.

Br,

Nabil

im very2 agree wiith you sir...:D

i have a lot of problem DT using nemo handy ( especially with NH 2.9 N96 )
1.value the mos not valid if i compared with NO
2. problem with nemo panic if we set the mobile 2 mobile voice quality ( if i using N95 more stable ) :D
3.the log file cant opened with NA ( the logfile is recorded but when we plot to NA didnt show anything )
4.sometimes when we DT indoor the plot is mess me up because the plot always jump :)
5 loses our data when the nemo panic came ( so i suggest to my engineer to set the record less than 10mb )


thats why i created this thread for discuss about nemo handy and nemo outdoor

[nabil el haddani]

by the way N95 is not stable phone :)

Try to follow my document i sent to u and u ll have more accurate data.

[px150]

here i sent the NTM picture for NH

[yjaouad]

here i sent the NTM picture for NH

http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx124/nemopanic/10Jan1602-18-08.jpghttp://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx124/nemopanic/10Jan16021802.jpghttp://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx124/nemopanic/10Jan16021819.jpg

taken from N85

Please can you share the nemo Handy 2.9 or 3.0, because i try to install NH 2.7, but i have a license probeme.

[px150]

guys do you have any question about nemo technologies such nemo handy, outdoor and analyze....?

[cdmahn]

Hi,

Nemo Outdoor use PESQ algorithm to calculate MOS, according to ITU-T P862.

Nemo Handy use PSQM algorithm to calculate MOS.

Anite always claims both version can be use for MOS score. It's true but as my knowledge, some national telecommunication bodies require PESQ based MOS. So, you should use Nemo Outdoor for MOS scores. For my opinion, Nemo is just one tools and it is very popular because of their price and user-friendly. For better tools, I think it is Ascom Qvoice.

Now, look at the problems that you have discussed. Some of you said that the C/I, RxLev, RxQual, FER were good, but the PESQ MOS was bad. Me also faces these problems. I have to study about it more and now, I can explain as follows:

- RxQual is BER based parameter for radio connection links;
- C/I is for Interference information;
- FER is for very important bits (from vocoder output) checking;
All of these parameters have their meaning in case that the connection is existed.

PESQ is for end-to-end users, so it depends on all parameters from the start to stop of the services. You know that in GSM, the handover is always hard-handover, i.e break-before-make, so the connection between 2 end users is not always "on-air". For the time of the lost connection, there will be some missing information and RxQual, C/I or FER cannot be used for monitoring in that cases.

Ok, that is answer for your question. Please check the handovers. Is anyone give me samples of drive test log-files?

Hope that will help you.

[atecx5]

here i sent the NTM picture for NH

http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx124/nemopanic/10Jan1602-18-08.jpghttp://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx124/nemopanic/10Jan16021802.jpghttp://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx124/nemopanic/10Jan16021819.jpg

taken from N85


how abaout n6120c ????:confused:

[px150]

Nice, to bad i can't make my N80 a NTM phone

sorry bro i dont have any clue about N80 its too old things....the latest soft for N80 using nemo handy 2.7 ?:)